Kickdown adjustment

[JG1966]

I know this topic has been dealt with a lot (but FSM is a bit fuzzy, at least in my eyes) and was looking for some help. 72 RR w/ 340, 727, 3.91. I swapped carb and manifold and need to get kickdown dialed in. Right now I am getting a slightly delayed upshift from 2-3 at normal throttle (about 40 mph) and loud downshift into 1st when I come to a stop. Also getting loud thunk - louder than Ma Mopar normal - when I put in reverse (though not convinced that's kickdown related). I believe I need to "shorten" my kickdown. It's a one-piece with the

adjuster near tranny. Here comes the dumb question. To shorten, do I loosen adjuster nut and move kickdown rod toward the engine, and this lessens some of the movement at the tranny lever? Or do I move kickdown rod toward rear and this "tightens" the tranny lever? I know a little adjustment goes a long way, so I want to adjust the right way the first time. Thanks.

 

[oldbee]

Im not familiar with one-piece but first off get rid of bolt&unit in the k/d slot by carb and hook up your green spring to pull that slotted arm forwards, right now it looks like it's trying to pull throttle wide open unless I'm missing something there.

 

[JG1966]

Im not familiar with one-piece but first off get rid of bolt&unit in the k/d slot by carb and hook up your green spring to pull that slotted arm forwards, right now it looks like it's trying to pull throttle wide open unless I'm missing something there.

I have the bolt in the slotted arm so that there is no gap and the kickdown moves right when the throttle does. The green spring pulls kickdown lever back to "idle" position when throttle is closed. It doesn't affect throttle at all.

 

[oldbee]

Yeah I missed where k/d pivot point was at. It sounds like your throttle pressure is too high, is the tv arm on trans all the way forward at hot idle?

 

[JG1966]

Yeah I missed where k/d pivot point was at. It sounds like your throttle pressure is too high, is the tv arm on trans all the way forward at hot idle?

Yes. But that puts the slotted arm at an upward angle and there's a gap between the throttle and the slotted arm that keeps me from getting full motion of K/D even at open throttle. That's why I was using nut and bolt.

 

[JG1966]

Im not familiar with one-piece but first off get rid of bolt&unit in the k/d slot by carb and hook up your green spring to pull that slotted arm forwards, right now it looks like it's trying to pull throttle wide open unless I'm missing something there.

Thanks Oldbee. What if I loosen adjuster and keep t/v arm forward where it is and move kickdown arm toward engine to remove the gap on slotted arm? Then I can ditch the nut and bolt. At that point, how do I reduce throttle pressure?

 

[JG1966]

Yeah I missed where k/d pivot point was at. It sounds like your throttle pressure is too high, is the tv arm on trans all the way forward at hot idle?

The k/d is about 1/2 inch too long, so when I adjust it all the way toward engine, there is a little pressure on t/v arm. Seems like I should be able to loosen/remove t/v arm and put it back on so there's no pressure with existing kickdown? No?

 

[miller]

What your telling Oldbee, sounds about right. Never have seen a setup like that one. Appears the adjustment is made at the trans kickdown arm. Yes, ditch the bolt/nut!!

Try this...un-hook the return spring, while adjusting. Make sure you get full throttle arm travel on the carb. Either get a helper, or wire the throttle at WOT, or wide open.
Adjust the kickdown, at the trans lever, using the adjustable slide block. Simply loosen the block, push the rod itself until the end of the slot (at the carb linkage) makes contact. Holding the rod in that position, then pull the trans kickdown lever towards the rear...back off just a little...and tighten the adjuster. Should be it.

 

[JG1966]

What your telling Oldbee, sounds about right. Never have seen a setup like that one. Appears the adjustment is made at the trans kickdown arm. Yes, ditch the bolt/nut!!

Try this...un-hook the return spring, while adjusting. Make sure you get full throttle arm travel on the carb. Either get a helper, or wire the throttle at WOT, or wide open.
Adjust the kickdown, at the trans lever, using the adjustable slide block. Simply loosen the block, push the rod itself until the end of the slot (at the carb linkage) makes contact. Holding the rod in that position, then pull the trans kickdown lever towards the rear...back off just a little...and tighten the adjuster. Should be it.

Yeah. The amount of different kickdowns MaMopar made boggle the mind. Ok. I did that adjustment. It's keeping the tranny lever pushed half-way back at closed throttle and I have a half-inch gap between throttle arm and end of slot.

 

[Yatzee]

I know this topic has been dealt with a lot (but FSM is a bit fuzzy, at least in my eyes) and was looking for some help. 72 RR w/ 340, 727, 3.91. I swapped carb and manifold and need to get kickdown dialed in. Right now I am getting a slightly delayed upshift from 2-3 at normal throttle (about 40 mph) and loud downshift into 1st when I come to a stop. Also getting loud thunk - louder than Ma Mopar normal - when I put in reverse (though not convinced that's kickdown related). I believe I need to "shorten" my kickdown. It's a one-piece with theView attachment 493678 View attachment 493679 adjuster near tranny. Here comes the dumb question. To shorten, do I loosen adjuster nut and move kickdown rod toward the engine, and this lessens some of the movement at the tranny lever? Or do I move kickdown rod toward rear and this "tightens" the tranny lever? I know a little adjustment goes a long way, so I want to adjust the right way the first time. Thanks.

So here's the skinny on 727 kick-downs weather cable or rods. If you disconnect the linkage at the tranny, manually move the lever by hand until you feel slight resistance. This is the point where the shift lever tang has just touched the shift valve journal. This is the point where you start all adjustments. Any movement before that point is slop in the shifter body. Any adjustment before that means your linkage has to remove the slop before it actually starts operating the pressure valve via lever. At idle the lever at the transmission should be pushed back by the rod at the carb to this starting point with the slop removed. Your shift points should be at 15 and 25 mph under normal acceleration. If you get these values by adjusting the rod, kick-down will automatically be right. I know what the OE manual says about this adjustment but your best to use a "trial and error" approach for peak operation. Insure there is no slop or binding in the bell-crank or lever ends. Have a friend hold the tranny lever at the point of "no slop" and adjust the rod at the carb so the rearward end of the slot is just touching the back of the pin on the throttle lever at the carbs idle position. This is where you start. As you change the length carb lever from this point make sure to count and record the number of turns at the slotted rod end. When you hit the sweet spot lock'er down.

 

[JG1966]

So here's the skinny on 727 kick-downs weather cable or rods. If you disconnect the linkage at the tranny, manually move the lever by hand until you feel slight resistance. This is the point where the shift lever tang has just touched the shift valve journal. This is the point where you start all adjustments. Any movement before that point is slop in the shifter body. Any adjustment before that means your linkage has to remove the slop before it actually starts operating the pressure valve via lever. At idle the lever at the transmission should be pushed back by the rod at the carb to this starting point with the slop removed. Your shift points should be at 15 and 25 mph under normal acceleration. If you get these values by adjusting the rod, kick-down will automatically be right. I know what the OE manual says about this adjustment but your best to use a "trial and error" approach for peak operation. Insure there is no slop or binding in the bell-crank or lever ends. Have a friend hold the tranny lever at the point of "no slop" and adjust the rod at the carb so the rearward end of the slot is just touching the back of the pin on the throttle lever at the carbs idle position. This is where you start. As you change the length carb lever from this point make sure to count and record the number of turns at the slotted rod end. When you hit the sweet spot lock'er down.

Thanks Yatzee. But that's part of my problem. My rod at the carb is unadjustable. It's not threaded like some others. And the pivot point isn't adjustable either (the bracket on the manifold.) I'm going to get the tranny lever as close as possible to where I start to feel pressure and lock it down there.

 

[JG1966]

Well, I took her out and the hard downshift to 1st at a stop is gone. Shift points are about 10 mph and 30 mph. So still a little off there but I'm getting there. For now, the nut and bolt will have to stay on the slotted arm. I'm may try bending the lever ever so slightly toward front of car to remove pressure on T/V arm. It's about 1/4 inch long. Thanks for help.

 

[Yatzee]

Well, I took her out and the hard downshift to 1st at a stop is gone. Shift points are about 10 mph and 30 mph. So still a little off there but I'm getting there. For now, the nut and bolt will have to stay on the slotted arm. I'm may try bending the lever ever so slightly toward front of car to remove pressure on T/V arm. It's about 1/4 inch long. Thanks for help.

After looking at your arm at the carb I think there's an easy solution. Leaving your nut and bot on the arm find out where your shift points are best then make a new arm noting the center of the holes and drilling mew ones.

 

[JG1966]

After looking at your arm at the carb I think there's an easy solution. Leaving your nut and bot on the arm find out where your shift points are best then make a new arm noting the center of the holes and drilling mew ones.

Thanks Yatzee. I just thought about that, too. That will work as far as getting rid of nut and bolt, but I would still have some pressure on the T/V arm. I need to "shorten" the arm going from the manifold bracket to the trans by about 1/4 - 1/2 inch. I'm going to bend it in a little and that should work.

 

[oldbee]

Just got done with "honey-do's" and I see miller&yatzee beat me to it. One more thought is try it backwards & put throttle at WOT & adjust at trans lever for "almost" bottomed out to the rear. I know there's sooo at forward end of trans lever travel that is never talked about in the FSM but I think that's a "given". Try my way, it won't hurt anything; never did it that way myself but when doing some fine tuning I always had the threaded adjustment to work with. It does sound like your getting close to correct though.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

i've always opened the throttle (wfo) and set the trans kick down in full on mode , wide open throttle = full kick down . then let the throttle come back to idle position and the kick down linkage rest were it stops under the return spring for itself . and a return spring for the throttle itself .

 

[JG1966]

Just got done with "honey-do's" and I see miller&yatzee beat me to it. One more thought is try it backwards & put throttle at WOT & adjust at trans lever for "almost" bottomed out to the rear. I know there's sooo at forward end of trans lever travel that is never talked about in the FSM but I think that's a "given". Try my way, it won't hurt anything; never did it that way myself but when doing some fine tuning I always had the threaded adjustment to work with. It does sound like your getting close to correct though.

Thanks Oldbee. I tried that method, and the problem is when I return the throttle to idle position, the tranny lever doesn't come close to returning all the way forward. It only comes halfway back. So that's a no-go. I need to bend the rod that goes from the bracket on the manifold down to the tranny, or file down the stop at the end of the arm at tranny to get a little more movement with the block adjuster.

 

[JG1966]

i've always opened the throttle (wfo) and set the trans kick down in full on mode , wide open throttle = full kick down . then let the throttle come back to idle position and the kick down linkage rest were it stops under the return spring for itself . and a return spring for the throttle itself .

View attachment 493771 View attachment 493772

Thanks but that doesn't work with my setup. If I set it full throttle-all the way back tranny lever, it doesn't return close to all the way, regardless of spring or anything.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

yes thats right , kick down should not be working until the throttle is opened up . it never returns to the throttle idle rest on any of my cars or trucks . even this one still has a little gap .

 

[JG1966]

yes thats right , kick down should not be working until the throttle is opened up . it never returns to the throttle idle rest on any of my cars or trucks . even this one still has a little gap . View attachment 493816

What I meant is the lever at the tranny doesn't return to the correct position. I could live with a gap on the slotted arm.