• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Lack Luster Brakes

OK. Carry on my friend. Hopefully the extra boost won't be an issue for you. So it also sounds like you want to do a non standard upgrade to discs in the future since you said it requires a wheel change. If you were to use the correct discs, they would work with your stock wheels. In the mean time at least get the correct adjusters for your current drums. Sorry I couldn't help you any.
There was an article in some Mopar Magazine a while back about doing a disc brake conversion on this generation mopar that uses the 73-76 A body spindles, caliper bracket and calipers with the (I think) 78-82 cordoba rotors and hub. These rotors require at least a 15" wheel. It is all mopar parts and should be more than enough braking power for this car. I already got everything for 11" rear drum brakes for the car and I am just waiting for the tires to age out at this point before I get all the other parts (Doctor Diff sells all the parts needed for the conversion, new)
 
Disc master is likely much larger bore, like 1-1/8 or 1-1/4. Try a 7/8” bore master for more sensitivity but more travel. If too touchy, go to 15/16 or 1” bore. Fix leak, and consider upgraded lining shoes. I once ran “lifetime” monkey wards shoes on my 11” brakes , they totally sucked. They worked but from 80 mph, they faded badly and could barely slow me to 40mph. Then it was a 2-footer. Lining matters!
 
With the new black Bendix dual diaphragm, squishy is gone, but the pedal is super duper light and a bit touchy. I got the Bendix from Dr Diff. I'm thinking of sending it off to Booster Dewy for a re-build (even though it's new) to see if there's a way to get a firmer pedal feel with more progressive control. I'm already maxed out on Master Cylinder bore as I've been running a 1-1/8".

Greg and Rich drove my car and claim it's the best feeling brakes they've seen in a b-body. I believe all air is bled out, but it feels like it could be better.
Don't want to highjack OP's thread too much, but until he returns with an update on his car...

I'm going to call the booster rebuild place and see what they say.

I suspected that your aggressive front brake pads were what was responsible for the grabby feel. It would be a LOT easier to test different pads than to swap out the booster.
 
There was an article in some Mopar Magazine a while back about doing a disc brake conversion on this generation mopar that uses the 73-76 A body spindles, caliper bracket and calipers with the (I think) 78-82 cordoba rotors and hub. These rotors require at least a 15" wheel. It is all mopar parts and should be more than enough braking power for this car. I already got everything for 11" rear drum brakes for the car and I am just waiting for the tires to age out at this point before I get all the other parts (Doctor Diff sells all the parts needed for the conversion, new)
If you do the disc conversion, get a set of semi metallic pads for it. The ones that come with the package are low dollar, junk pads. They come in the package so he can meet the same price point as others. Thats what my 67 wagon had installed by the PO. Those pads made quite a bit of noise. Ordered up some SM units, all good now. The industry number for them is D84. If you check the Rock, Doc Diff, local parts store, get pads for a 73- a-body.
 
So good news. Took the car out last night for a loop and it ran and stopped fine. have some electrical issues to deal with, but the brakes stopped the car consistently. I would say that a drum brake car with the disc brake booster that the brakes are over boosted to the point it is very hard to get feed back from the brake pedal. Not the best situation but I am happy with the outcome, thanks for all your help!
 
So good news. Took the car out last night for a loop and it ran and stopped fine. have some electrical issues to deal with, but the brakes stopped the car consistently. I would say that a drum brake car with the disc brake booster that the brakes are over boosted to the point it is very hard to get feed back from the brake pedal. Not the best situation but I am happy with the outcome, thanks for all your help!
Hey , Ran across this Ad From Speedway &

The Tech Articles May Be Of Value To Some

Of The Brotherhood ….

Mopar2ya!

John

IMG_8672.png


IMG_8671.png


IMG_8670.png
 
Disc master is likely much larger bore, like 1-1/8 or 1-1/4. Try a 7/8” bore master for more sensitivity but more travel. If too touchy, go to 15/16 or 1” bore. Fix leak, and consider upgraded lining shoes. I once ran “lifetime” monkey wards shoes on my 11” brakes , they totally sucked. They worked but from 80 mph, they faded badly and could barely slow me to 40mph. Then it was a 2-footer. Lining matters!
I would not recommend a 7/8" bore MC. For Mopars I've driven within that size MC, the pedal feel is much too light for a power brake setup. Manual brakes with no booster it can work.
 
So good news. Took the car out last night for a loop and it ran and stopped fine. have some electrical issues to deal with, but the brakes stopped the car consistently. I would say that a drum brake car with the disc brake booster that the brakes are over boosted to the point it is very hard to get feed back from the brake pedal. Not the best situation but I am happy with the outcome, thanks for all your help!
OP - I've got some questions and some good news to share with you about my own car in hopes it can help you a bit.

Please remind us what the MC bore size is for your car. I'm also curious from one of your posts a few weeks ago why you were smelling burning brakes and saw smoke? What did you do to fix that issue? Lastly, can you please share a photo of your booster and let us know where you got it?

If I go back and read your original post #1, your brake symptoms describe my own from a few years back, except I have discs up front. I chased down this brake pedal issue for years, but I've finally got mine fixed and working well (just as of YESTERDAY!). Here's a summary of what I did to fix mine.
- I discovered I had a brake line leak at the bottom port on the brass distribution block going to the rear drums. I replaced the rear line and fitting at the distribution block.
- I installed new ceramic brake pads up front. Whether disc or drum, most of the braking power comes from the front brakes.
- I used to run a 15/16" bore Master Cylinder. The pedal travel would go almost all the way to the floor and was quite light feeling. That did not inspire confidence. I then learned that normally a 15/16" bore MC is more suited for a manual brake setup. I swapped in a 1-1/8" bore MC (Raybestos blue). Pedal travel now stops well above bottom of floor and pedal feel is not as light as before, but still fairly light. I would actually like it a bit firmer, but it's fine.

All of the above was completed over a year ago and did not completely fix my problem. Then recently....

- The BOOSTER - I fought and fought this in my mind thinking that a new booster is a new booster and how could a different booster really help me? It can. I was wrong. The booster I had installed when my troubles started was one of the gold ones like Randy posted above. It came with an all in one kit I from Master Power Brakes that used to be on the car. See below. There are currently no items remaining from that original Master Power Brakes kit.
Post a picture of the booster...

Please tell me it doesn't look like this...

View attachment 1668283
When my car was at KernDog's house getting the A/C and Borgeson steering installed, I went ahead and ordered a new Bendix dual diaphragm 8" booster from Dr Diff and had KD install it. It looks like this:
1718028846908.png


So all should be good right? Well things were MUCH improved. Pedal feel was no longer mushy and the brakes now grabbed with bite and not like before where I couldn't lock up the brakes at all. I could not believe a booster could have that much of an effect. Now before this booster swap, I had fixed the rear line leak. That actually made a big difference with the gold booster and did allow me to finally lock up the brakes with the gold booster, although not much bite from the brakes and the brake pedal still felt a bit too firm, requiring medium/high leg effort. After swapping in the black Bendix booster, the brake pedal actually felt TOO light, but not mushy at the bottom, required very little leg effort, AND the brakes were now VERY touchy. I was frustrated and immediately did not enjoy driving the car. I actually liked it better before the booster swap.

So...I decided to check the Master Cylinder push-rod gap between the bottom of the bore opening in the Master Cylinder and the Booster push rod on the engine side. The Bendix booster was installed with the push rod having adequate clearance to avoid brake dragging, but close enough to give good stopping power, but could pedal feel be better?
Last year I came across this H-shaped booster push rod adjustment tool. Many here say they've never used one and don't need it. Maybe not, but I bought one and wanted to try.
1718029328543.png

As you can see, after unbolting the MC from the booster (no line disconnecting required), you place the short side against the face of the MC and seat the sliding metal rod to the bottom of the bore and then lock the lock screw. Then you place the long side against the booster face with the gauge positioned on the flats of the booster where the elongated oval indented area is (the gauge will only fit this way and requires an approximate 20-degree clocked rotation for correct placement). In front of that long side metal rod add a .020" feeler gauge and now unscrew the adjustable booster push rod until it contacts the feeler gauge. This provides a .020" gap between the booster push rod and the bottom of the MC bore. The H-shaped tool user instructions say the gap should be .005" minimum. Elsewhere I've read that an ideal target gap is .020". As a side note, I phoned Booster Dewy and he agreed with the .020" gap. (He also said he doesn't rebuild new boosters and thought my new light touchy pedal issue could be related to the push rod depth setting, so here we are.)

As found, I measured the booster push rod gap at around .050". I brought the push rod in closer by unscrewing the adjuster and setting with this H-gauge and a .020" feeler gauge. Bolted it all back together and took it for a drive. BINGO! All is good now. The touchy pedal is gone. The brake feel is still light, but not as ultra-light as before and initial pedal engagement up top is much more predictable. I can lock the brakes up at will and the fronts bite first (and with no proportioning valve since I have the smallest rear brake wheel cylinders). And remember, I'm still running a 1-1/8" bore MC and the pedal requires very light effort. If I went to a 7/8" bore MC, I know I wouldn't feel pedal engagement at all. I drove someone else's car with a 7/8" bore and it was scary because of how light it was and how low the pedal traveled towards the floor before the car stopped.

So in the end, my advice to you is fix all leaks (I think you have), install a new dual diaphragm Bendix style booster from Dr Diff and make sure you set the push-rod gap correctly to .020". I recall you saying .015" on yours which should also work, but are you sure it's .015"? How did you measure this? I'm wondering if you set it accurately to .020" and use a 1-1/8" bore Master Cylinder, maybe your pedal feel will improve?

Anyway, I'm pleased beyond belief with how my car stops now. It was an ongoing saga for me and now what a relief. I hope you get your car not only stopping ok, but stopping excellent with great pedal feel.

Thanks to @Kern Dog for talking me into trying the Bendix booster and for installing it and thanks to @1 Wild R/T for the feedback on the booster differences.
 
Last edited:
OP - I've got some questions and some good news to share with you about my own car in hopes it can help you a bit.

Please remind us what the MC bore size is for your car. I'm also curious from one of your posts a few weeks ago why you were smelling burning brakes and saw smoke? What did you do to fix that issue? Lastly, can you please share a photo of your booster and let us know where you got it?

If I go back and read your original post #1, your brake symptoms describe my own from a few years back, except I have discs up front. I chased down this brake pedal issue for years, but I've finally got mine fixed and working well (just as of YESTERDAY!). Here's a summary of what I did to fix mine.
- I discovered I had a brake line leak at the bottom port on the brass distribution block going to the rear drums. I replaced the rear line and fitting at the distribution block.
- I installed new ceramic brake pads up front. Whether disc or drum, most of the braking power comes from the front brakes.
- I used to run a 15/16" bore Master Cylinder. The pedal travel would go almost all the way to the floor and was quite light feeling. That did not inspire confidence. I then learned that normally a 15/16" bore MC is more suited for a manual brake setup. I swapped in a 1-1/8" bore MC (Raybestos blue). Pedal travel now stops well above bottom of floor and pedal feel is not as light as before, but still fairly light. I would actually like it a bit firmer, but it's fine.

All of the above was completed over a year ago and did not completely fix my problem. Then recently....

- The BOOSTER - I fought and fought this in my mind thinking that a new booster is a new booster and how could a different booster really help me? It can. I was wrong. The booster I had installed when my troubles started was one of the gold ones like Randy posted above. It came with an all in one kit I from Master Power Brakes that used to be on the car. See below. There are currently no items remaining from that original Master Power Brakes kit.

When my car was at KernDog's house getting the A/C and Borgeson steering installed, I went ahead and ordered a new Bendix dual diaphragm 8" booster from Dr Diff and had KD install it. It looks like this:
View attachment 1677127

So all should be good right? Well things were MUCH improved. Pedal feel was no longer mushy and the brakes now grabbed with bite and not like before where I couldn't lock up the brakes at all. I could not believe a booster could have that much of an effect. Now before this booster swap, I had fixed the rear line leak. That actually made a big difference with the gold booster and did allow me to finally lock up the brakes with the gold booster, although not much bite from the brakes and the brake pedal still felt a bit too firm, requiring medium/high leg effort. After swapping in the black Bendix booster, the brake pedal actually felt TOO light, but not mushy at the bottom, required very little leg effort, AND the brakes were now VERY touchy. I was frustrated and immediately did not enjoy driving the car. I actually liked it better before the booster swap.

So...I decided to check the Master Cylinder push-rod gap between the bottom of the bore opening in the Master Cylinder and the Booster push rod on the engine side. The Bendix booster was installed with the push rod having adequate clearance to avoid brake dragging, but close enough to give good stopping power, but could pedal feel be better?
Last year I came across this H-shaped booster push rod adjustment tool. Many here say they've never used one and don't need it. Maybe not, but I bought one and wanted to try.
View attachment 1677140
As you can see, after unbolting the MC from the booster (no line disconnecting required), you place the short side against the face of the MC and seat the sliding metal rod to the bottom of the bore and then lock the lock screw. Then you place the long side against the booster face with the gauge positioned on the flats of the booster where the elongated oval indented area is (the gauge will only fit this way and requires an approximate 20-degree clocked rotation for correct placement). In front of that long side metal rod add a .020" feeler gauge and now unscrew the adjustable booster push rod until it contacts the feeler gauge. This provides a .020" gap between the booster push rod and the bottom of the MC bore. The H-shaped tool user instructions say the gap should be .005" minimum. Elsewhere I've read that an ideal target gap is .020". As a side note, I phoned Booster Dewy and he agreed with the .020" gap. (He also said he doesn't rebuild new boosters and thought my new light touchy pedal issue could be related to the push rod depth setting, so here we are.)

As found, I measured the booster push rod gap at around .050". I brought the push rod in closer by unscrewing the adjuster and setting with this H-gauge and a .020" feeler gauge. Bolted it all back together and took it for a drive. BINGO! All is good now. The touchy pedal is gone. The brake feel is still light, but not as ultra-light as before and initial pedal engagement up top is much more predictable. I can lock the brakes up at will and the fronts bite first (and with no proportioning valve since I have the smallest rear brake wheel cylinders). And remember, I'm still running a 1-1/8" bore MC and the pedal requires very light effort. If I went to a 7/8" bore MC, I know I wouldn't feel pedal engagement at all. I drove someone else's car with a 7/8" bore and it was scary because of how light it was and how low the pedal traveled towards the floor before the car stopped.

So in the end, my advice to you is fix all leaks (I think you have), install a new dual diaphragm Bendix style booster from Dr Diff and make sure you set the push-rod gap correctly to .020". I recall you saying .015" on yours which should also work, but are you sure it's .015"? How did you measure this? I'm wondering if you set it accurately to .020" and use a 1-1/8" bore Master Cylinder, maybe your pedal feel will improve?

Anyway, I'm pleased beyond belief with how my car stops now. It was an ongoing saga for me and now what a relief. I hope you get your car not only stopping ok, but stopping excellent with great pedal feel.

Thanks to @Kern Dog for talking me into trying the Bendix booster and for installing it and thanks to @1 Wild R/T for the feedback on the booster differences.
I am not to sure where I got this from. it was a couple years ago and when I was looking for it I saw quite a few places carrying it

charger booster.jpg


The bore of the Master cylinder is 1". I measured it and according to the FSM that is what you are suppose to have with the 10" drums

When it comes to the smoking of the front brakes I really didnt do anything but drive it. I did go in reverse quite a bit and apply the brakes pretty hard to get the brakes to adjust. I have not had that problem come up again even under some pretty heavy emergency braking I had to do in rush hour traffic. So I am chalking that up to just the semi metallic pads I got breaking in.

To measure that push rod length I used calipers. Now it may not be the most accurate measurement due to the measuring end of the calipers being flat and the mating area for the push rod being a dome. But the brakes work even if the pedal may go down a little further than my other drum brake power cars. Unfortunately with this new booster I can not take the master cylinder off of the booster without removing the brakes lines due to the brake lines hitting the shock tower portion of the apron. I may pick up that tool regardless, because it looks a lot easier to use than the set up I ended up using.

Given what little time I have to work on these cars during the driving season, there is other work that takes priority. Id rather not have the car sit a couple days while I get around to this after work, because that time could be spent driving the thing.

I am happy with the pedal feel and how the car stops currently. Major improvement from what it was. That may change in a couple months or next year. But at this point any other work beyond this feels like a waste of timing being that the tires are ageing out in 2 years and I would have to repeat most this work when I add in disc brakes at that time (again, the disc brakes I want to use require a 15" wheel. I dont want to add disc brakes and buy tires for the larger wheels before I need too. I dont have that much expendable income).
 
Thanks OP - if you're happy with the pedal feel and how your car stops currently, I'd say leave it and drive it. What a beautiful thing.
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top