Leveling the car for surgery

[shopguy]

I'm trying to level out the 65 Coronet for the AWB front and rear surgerys. I'm going to do the Snoke method rear wheel roll first.

I have multiple quality jack stands and shims and a level concrete floor. Yeah!
So far: I set 2 jack stands at the ends of the rear framerails and 2 at the tranny crossmember. I will add 2 more at the rocker area under the doors.
I took the level and tape measure to what I have....and here is what I noticed.

With the rear framerails level, at the same height from the floor.....the exterior of one qtr panel measure 3/8 of and inch lower than the other (pass. side higher) the car is leveled from to rear as measure along the door sill area. With the two jackstands under the crossmember, the driver side is now higher by ~ 1/2. The whole dame car seems to be twisted! But the distances between the frame and the concrete floor is alway symetrical.

Should I just make sure the distance from all frame areas (by the jacks) are square with the concrete floor and let the body panel alignment be off? Should I shim the jacks to bring the body in? understanding that the "frame" will not be square?

Any suggestions?

 

[rapidtransitric]

do you have a level floor? very rarely is a shop floor level it self the best way to do this is to always have you suspension loaded meaning the wait of the car on its suspension. thats where you jack stands should be. if and when you need to remove your suspension keep checking bodylines and door gaps. the body will twist and sag when it hangs on its own. when you cut away or are replacing body sections or panels always check adjacent panel for gaps and how they open and close before you weld you may have to jack up or lower push or pull to get the alignment then when every thing looks right you can weld. but when ever possible do it with the suspension loaded in the car. unless of course you haveacess to a chassis table

 

[Polara Pat]

I didn't hear any mention of a bubble level. We used one in conjunction with a flat tape measure and a plum bob when we moved our rear section. I also spent many hours measuring, marking and eyeballing everything to make sure it was right before we made a single cut. Make sure your wheels have a small amount of drag on them when you set up your stands. As far as being out of square, that's hard to diagnose without actually having the car in front of me. It might be just a bit twisted but more likely just tweaking from jacking it up at different points.

 

[Ralph Cali]

Being an architect no floor is level - typically out 1/8" to 1/4" per foot when poured would be acceptable. so I recommend using another method.
LOL

RJC

 

[rapidtransitric]

being an architect no floor is level - typically out 1/8" to 1/4" per foot when poured would be acceptable. So i recommend using another method.
Lol

rjc

thats where the loaded suspension comes when the car is on the bround the suspension compensates to the floor due to the vehicles wait take a jack and place it under the font torque box raise the car with the jack and you will see the gap between the fender and the door at the top will widen now move the jack to the left front frame rail as far forward of the front suspension as possible jack the car up now look at the gap between the door and fender again the gap is now wider at the bottom and if you try to open the door there will probaly be some drag or resistance from normal operation when a car is put on a lift you can usually see the front and back end droop or sag. I've been doing collision repair for 30 years. We weld them back together on the suspension and constantly check fit and opening and closing doors,hoods,and trunk lids it works!!! If you have a laser measuring system then you can use that to show where the car should be

 

[shopguy]

we are using a bubble level on the door sill plate. the fenders, doors, drivetrain, hood, bumpers, decklid and interior are already removed.

1/4 per foot out is acceptable??????? that's the pitch of a waste line!!! I don't buy that!

 

[rapidtransitric]

we are using a bubble level on the door sill plate. the fenders, doors, drivetrain, hood, bumpers, decklid and interior are already removed.

1/4 per foot out is acceptable??????? that's the pitch of a waste line!!! I don't buy that!

1/4 is alot for a mopar. if it was a gm well they were built sloppy, there was always a stack of shims. give or take an 1/8 used to be the norm in the dark ages but think about it .if you take an 1/8 here and an 1/8 over there and then some where else and so on... where is the car at. my practice has always been never split hair's , did you put the level on you shop floor, is it 1/4 inch out? if everything is removed what do you have to guage your alignment on now? it usually doesn't work by just eyeballing it. when you weld your wake up molicules in the metal and they will move around as they cool. this is why you need to have panels on to constantly check your fit so you can readjust while the metal is cooling. the way i have tried to explain is fail safe. any other way you may find yourself whallowing out holes or adding shims .when they were never needed to begin with. or now you have to take a cutoff wheel or grinder to open up a gap.

 

[rapidtransitric]

at the very least clamp it ,or screw it into place and rehang a door, trunklid, ect. before you weld. if you don't follow these procedures you may find your fixed glass may keep breaking or even pop out when the car is under load.

 

[shopguy]

good point. I'm thinking rather than hang the doors, I may square it the best I can and weld in some temp. steel bracing to help keep things in line before cutting.

what's the consensus? level the framerails? of level the body?

 

[rapidtransitric]

You can weld in temporary braces to hold the car in one place. But that should have been done before you blew the thing apart. Youv'e already stated that the car seems to have a twist, sag or sway. So you can level the car on stands all you want. But what already exists will still be there if not worse when your finished cutting and welding it back together. If you put the doors back on, you can sight the car down the side to make sure it dosen't look like a bannana and you can confirm your gaps and the way things fit. What does it take to rehang a door ten minutes? To brake out the welder grinde some paint for a clean welding spot, cut some steel stock and tack it to the car, how much time have you spent? If the car is not welded so it is square. How do you think it will react when you launch it hard and try to push it down the quarter mile? If your building it just to tell war stories that never happened, while drinking beer over it with your buddies and it will never leave the garage... Well then i guess it dosen't matter how you weld it back together

 

[funnycar65]

You tend to blow off any suggestion I make and that's fine,I don't have a slick little DVD you can buy.But I have done 3 wheelbase convertions.And I strongly suggest rehanging both doors and getting them adjusted before you do anything else.On a hardtop once you start cutting the quarters and frame rails things move in a BIG way.After you get the doors fitting right leave them on and brace the body 8 ways to sunday.Level the rockers front to rear.And remember every cut is on a vertical or horizontal plane.Keep every cut square and it will fit back like puzzle pieces.After both rockers are level mark a level line the lenght of the quarters and your vertical cut lines can be squared from that on the quarters.Refer to my Ideas thread the green tape will show you what I'm refering too.

 

[rapidtransitric]

you tend to blow off any suggestion i make and that's fine,i don't have a slick little dvd you can buy.but i have done 3 wheelbase convertions.and i strongly suggest rehanging both doors and getting them adjusted before you do anything else.on a hardtop once you start cutting the quarters and frame rails things move in a big way.after you get the doors fitting right leave them on and brace the body 8 ways to sunday.level the rockers front to rear.and remember every cut is on a vertical or horizontal plane.keep every cut square and it will fit back like puzzle pieces.after both rockers are level mark a level line the lenght of the quarters and your vertical cut lines can be squared from that on the quarters.refer to my ideas thread the green tape will show you what i'm refering too.

thanks for chiming in "funnycar65"

 

[Polara Pat]

It all sounds like good advice to me from all of these rusty car veterans. Like funnycar65 said, he's on his 3rd altered and I'm guessing that he has probably made the odd mistake along the way so we can listen to him and do it right the first time. I'm taking notes.

 

[funnycar65]

I don't claim to be an exspert by any means,but you learn a few things along the way.I did the rear move by myself with a mig welder sawsall and Harbor Frieght cut off tool in 12 hours.That was cut moved and welded the frame back solid enough to move the car.I still had the patch sections to weld in.

 

[Endangered Species]

Does anyone make a screw style jack stand that is infinitely adjustable, that way you can fine tune the jack stands to get the car perfectly level if with un level floors.

 

[Mr B Body]

Does anyone make a screw style jack stand that is infinitely adjustable, that way you can fine tune the jack stands to get the car perfectly level if with un level floors.

Yeah, Harbor Freight makes one that is about $35 ea.

 

[rapidtransitric]

hope your not discouraged

 

[Homstead]

Hi,, I use camper stands and a rotary laser level. Not the real expensive stuff but good enough for what we are trying to do. Anyway goodluck!

 

[Cranky]

Does anyone make a screw style jack stand that is infinitely adjustable, that way you can fine tune the jack stands to get the car perfectly level if with un level floors.

Most mobile home sites have adjustable screw type jacks.....but they are simple to make using re-bar, some flat stock for the bottom and a 3/4" threaded nut at the top. 3 legged ones will always sit on all 3 legs vs a 4 legged one. I also like to weld a round piece of short pipe at the top to tie the legs into and then tack weld the nut to the pipe with a good solid tack weld in 3 places. Then all you have to do is get some 3/4" all thread and weld on the 'receivers' to the tops. Didn't read everything here but I'd make a chassis fixture for this job but the jack stands can work too...

 

[Endangered Species]

Most mobile home sites have adjustable screw type jacks.....but they are simple to make using re-bar, some flat stock for the bottom and a 3/4" threaded nut at the top. 3 legged ones will always sit on all 3 legs vs a 4 legged one. I also like to weld a round piece of short pipe at the top to tie the legs into and then tack weld the nut to the pipe with a good solid tack weld in 3 places. Then all you have to do is get some 3/4" all thread and weld on the 'receivers' to the tops. Didn't read everything here but I'd make a chassis fixture for this job but the jack stands can work too...

Cranky,

I never thought of camper/mobile home stands.

Can you post some pictures of the adjustable stands you made?

Thanks

Kev