looking for advice from experienced engine builder

[benno440]

Hi just finished my 440-505 stroker, muscle motors rotating assembly
KB pistons h beam rods billet flywheel, fluidampner, lunati 60303 cam, stealth ported heads, edelbrock dual quad intake twin 500 cfm eddies, tti 2" headers
msd 6al ignition and distributor. milodon 7qt pan and windage tray, every bolt and stud is arp, cometic .40 head gaskets, 11.1 compression, etc etc.

just want to know the proper way and each step on how to run the motor in properly, without causing ny problems.

any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[benno440]

anyone able to help with the correct procedure to run my new motor in?

 

[Supershafts]

That depends on your cam, the ultimate way to break in a motor is thru immediately driving it and going up and down the rpm range from off idle to say 3500 and let it drag down, then back up to 4500 let it drag down, then up to 3500 again and let it drag down then back to 4500..

No constant rpms at all, all up and down this is best for seating the rings and getting the best seal....

BUT, if you are using a flat cam you do not have the option of seating the rings for the best seal but have to opt for holding the rpms at 2k so the cam is oiled and it breaks in without wiping out.
If you do not have a roller you can only break the cam in and the rings seal is as best it can get.

After that drop the oil and filter, and after an additional 2 hours of use drop the oil and use what you want.

 

[Meep-Meep]

First, fill with GOOD oil and prime the system with a drill. Make sure you have gas in the carbs and static time it so it will fire right away. It will be nice if you can test your carbs for proper mixture and general operation on another engine - in other words a known working carb. An over rich mixture will have higher EGT and tend to wash the rings. Too lean is also not good and can overheat the chamber and pistons because there is not enough fuel to provide a cooling effect. Have your timing light ready and when it starts set the total to around 45 deg at 2 KRPM with vac advance hooked up. Really just make sure you don't have way too much advance or way too retarded. During this first fire up you will be checking for leaks and keeping an eye on oil PSI and temp. Having another set of eyes helps a lot.

If your cam requires double springs you will need to pull the inner springs to break it in properly. After you have established a nice wear pattern you can put the inner spring in. Needless to say doing the break in on a stand will be soooo much easier.

During cam break in I don't run the engine at constant RPM. I don't let it get below 1200 and vary the speed a few hundred RPM during a 5 min run. I don't like to get it too hot either so I will do my cam break-in runs in cycles. The high RPM is to splash oil on the cam and varying the speed will make oil go in different places. I'm plus or minus 1500 RPM.

After the half hour of cam break in you can do more adjustments like idle speed and mixture and make sure it will go down the road OK. Take it down the road but don't rev it past say 4000 RPM. In high gear and fairly slow speed go WOT for a few seconds then back off. Do this about 10 times to seat the rings. The WOT bursts (without excessive RPM) loads the rings against the cylinder wall to establish a wear pattern. I also don't like to get the engine hot (less than 200 deg) during this time so limit your runs to short trips until it loosens up a bit. You will want to change the oil soon after this.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I used a 509 cam from my 440 that was already broke in when I built a new motor. Also used the same carb that was on the 440. So then all I had to do was seat the rings. This I did by using Meep Meeps general suggestions. Vary the load, accelerate and decellerate off and on, stay below 3500-4000 RPM. Plus I changed the oil and filter within 100 miles. No matter how careful you are on assembly there is always minute particles get into the engine. So hopefully the oil and filter remove most of this stuff.

 

[benno440]

thanks guys,

this is my cam specs: ( copy from website it is lunati hydraulic


Hydraulic. The most awesome 268 cam ever produced! Out-powers all others! This High Performance street cam likes 2400 RPM stall, 800 cfm carb, dual plane intake and headers. Makes un-equaled power to 6200 RPM with proper valve springs. Very strong cam with great street manners.

• Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276
• Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 226/234
• Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .494/.513
• LSA/ICL: 110/106
• Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
• RPM Range: 1800-6200
• Includes: Cam Only

i also do not have a vac advance distributor.

the gearbox is completely rebuilt, it has completel;y new disc brakes, the diff has never been turned ( brand new) so will any of this cause me dramas trying to run the engine in ?

 

[Meep-Meep]

Does that cam require dual valve springs?

I'd get a vac advance distributor for street driving.

 

[rev.ronnie]

Dyno it. Remove the inner valve springs and break the cam in with proper break in oil and then change it to an appropriate hot rod oil with zinc.

If you don't Dyno it, it's a total crap shoot as to if you will ever get a good fuel and timing curve...I won't even build and engine unless we Dyno it, it's way too much of a gamble. Your engine having 11:1, if you are going to run pump gas, is really going to be picky on the tune up.

 

[benno440]

yeh will definetly dyno it where i live though the closest dyno is 9 hr drive lol. so slight problem but will eventually get done,

dual valve springs? on my heads the springs look to have 2 springs in them if this is what you mean.

 

[benno440]

also meep meep how do you prime the oil system with a drill which part do i need to turn?

 

[Meep-Meep]

Remove the distributor and the distributor drive shaft and way in the hole is where you need to access. To remove the drive use some long nose pliers or something that will grab on to the shaft and allow you to twist while pulling. Summit should have the special oil pump priming rod, but I made mine out of an old distributor drive and some hex stock. But I have a shop full of machine tools so no big deal. I think you will need to run the drill CCW, or whatever direction will produce high resistance to rotation.

 

[67 coronet]

also meep meep how do you prime the oil system with a drill which part do i need to turn?

you need to get an oil pump prim rod from some retailer.mine is old so not sure where to get them.pull the distrib and drive gear from under it.rod goes all the way down through hole to enguage oil pump.turn with a powerfull drill,counterclockwise.while you do that ,rotate crank all the way around two times.will get oil through all the pasages in the motor.

 

[rev.ronnie]

yeh will definetly dyno it where i live though the closest dyno is 9 hr drive lol. so slight problem but will eventually get done,

dual valve springs? on my heads the springs look to have 2 springs in them if this is what you mean.

I wouldn't put it in the car until its dynoed and tuned. You run the serious risk of having a jetting or timing problem that you may not detect until that damage is done.
For example, just because you don't "hear" detonation, doesn't mean it's not happening. Same with fuel, if it's too rich, you could be fuel washing your rings and not know it. Without egt readings, you may well be lighting your exhaust valves to 1500 degrees because you have the timing backed off to far to compensate for poor jetting...the list goes on.

All systems have to work in conjunction with one another at all times. I hear guys say all the time, "I'll just put some easy miles on it then Dyno"..when in reality, the tune is so far off, it's half worn out in a thousand miles. you are not building a stock engine, you can't treat and tune it like one.

 

[coloradodave]

As an old guy who worked for and drag raced out of a speed shop for many years, I have never had a motor on a dyno; engine or chassis. I can't tell you how many motors I built for racing and for street 'use' and with proper break-in and tuning, did not have a problem. The key is to have the knowledge available to recognize potential problems, like coolant temperature, oil pressure, spark plug coloring, total timing specs, etc.
Dynos are a nice tool to pre-adjust everything if you've got the money to spend, but in my opinion, only really are good for bragging rights. Once installed in a car, a lot of things are going to be different, requiring changes to the dyno tune. The headers, exhaust system, air filters and air entry over the carburetor (s), most likely will be different and still require 'tweaking'.
I have friends in my circle who swear by them, and I respect their opinion, but in the end, I won my share of races, and my motors stayed together.
Learn what can hurt your motor and then learn to tune it correctly. You'll be money ahead.

 

[benno440]

thanks for the info, my motor might be a stroker, but it is no race engine, i had some money to burn and i wanted the extra power, i do have a experienced mechanic helping with the build, i have researched everything, engine will be perfectly balanced etc. i had it running a couple of months ago before the machine work done. i would love to get dyno tuned but as i said its a long way

 

[rev.ronnie]

Dynos are for much more than "bragging rights". They measure every critical aspect of the engines vitals while measuring torque and calculating HP.
Fuel volume metering, air flow and ext. temps are constantly measured. BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) is a real valuable calculation that you won't get running it in the car,and may be one of the more important things we tune by. (Pounds of fuel,per horsepower,per hour).
Road simulation testing can be done as well. Watching ext. temps will give a indication of whether the timing and jetting will work while running down the road without torching ext. valves.

I have had a long standing bet. I tell anyone, tune your engine the best you can in the car. Then, we will Dyno it. I will give you $100 for every HP lost trying to tune it from your baseline, and the dyno session is free. You give me $1 for every HP we gain, plus pay for your Dyno time......no takers in 20 years.

I will say, we require Dyno tuning for every engine that leaves the shop. Even the "old timers" , that never believed in it, once having dynoed their engine, have stated they would never run an engine in their car without first dynoing it.

I spent 10 hours on my 440-6 getting the thing dialed in. From drilling metering plates to adjusting the timing and vac. pot...it was a long process. I can't imagine having to bend over the fenders of the finished car to try to achieve what we did on the Dyno. Trying to get even cylinder balance and ext temps corrected was a nightmare. We finally got it perfect and it runs like a watch. I only open the hood to look at it.

 

[coloradodave]

I can't argue with that..............but as the poster said, it's a street car. You can chase down every last bit of power and spend lots of money to do it only to have your tires go up in smoke with DOT tires on the street.
If I were in your position today, evidently in the engine building business, in our litigious society, I would probably want to dyno every motor too. Better to be safe than sorry. And besides, I'm sure it's a great profit center. Some will agree, some won't. That's what makes the world interesting..............

 

[rev.ronnie]

Interestingly, when we Dyno an engine for a street car, sometimes we don't go after the highest HP number, actually more often not.
The highest HP/TQ reading that you tune the engine to are sometimes not the best way to tune the engine for street duty. Sure, we try to optimize the engine first, getting the most from it, finding its HP ability. Coloradodave is right, there is a certain amount of "bragging rights" to this.

Sometimes, however, between taking off spacers for hood clearance and taming down the timing or jetting to make the engine less sensitive to weather conditions, it may compromise horsepower.
I have found some engines that we simply could not get a good front/rear fuel balance and fuel curve from, without running a spacer. Usually is was significant enough whereas the owner opted to modify the hood for clearance if it would not fit.

Loaded road simulation testing will also show things that you just can't find without the data collection available from a Dyno.

If you are road tuning, there will be a lot of "wide open throttle chop testing" and plug reading by dead testing it at cruise rpm to get it close. Just sneak up on it. I do this with my drag outboards...it's a lot of work even with an EGT.