looking for power out of a 440 - better options than a edelbrock top end kit?

[Cranky]

You don't HAVE to run big compression with alloy heads but it's usually better plus more compression gives more horse power. Good compression with good quench will make any engine run better no matter what heads you run. Don't know how old most here are but I remember low compression engines pinging their asses off during the beginning of emissions BS with lowered compression starting in 1970 and it only got worse as the years rolled on. The manufacturers lowered compression by dropping the compression height of the pistons and didn't bother with improving the combustion chambers of the heads. Lowered compression plus very poor quench distance equals ping city.

 

[IQ52]

I know you've touched on this in other threads, but I can't remember..... Were you going to throw a set of big aluminum heads on it in the end?
I would love to see this mythical "HAVE to have high compression to run aluminum heads" either proven, or disproved....
My bet is that a set of BIG Victors or Indy EZ will run and produce better numbers with the same 9.1:1 compression / M1 intake combo...

The 'have to run high compression' is bunk, it's already been disproven. Countless articles have been written about bolting aluminum heads on stock motors, the performance increase is substantial.

Yes, we are going to use our ported EZ heads and I also have my Edelbrock Victors that made 928 HP on a normally aspirated 500 stroker. In doing some calculations last night, we may be required to use a bigger cam with the EZ and Victor heads. The intent is to run on 91 octane and the aluminum heads with their small combustion chambers will jack the static and dynamic into ranges where the small hydraulic flat tappet will give us some detonation. We'll just have to see.

 

[dvw]

The Eddy heads at 10-10.5-1 will run nicely on pump gas. Cam will be determined by rear gear, converter, carb. You could run a combo like my earlier post or go wilder, it's up to you. How much do you want to spend? Light pistons, hydraulic roller,aftermarket rods, low deck 400 block, stroker crank are all options. I've built several Eddy headed street 440 non strokers at various power levels. From the per-mentioned piece to a 10.80 B-Body. Non had ported heads. If I was building a motor from the ground up it would have 10.5-1 with a light a piston as possible ( higher comp might work on 91 but sometimes can be a pain), eagle rods, 230-235 hydraulic roller, Performer RPM hands down as the intake, Eddy 750-800. If I had the $ for a six-pack I'd spend it on porting.
Doug

 

[67 B-body]

You don't HAVE to run big compression with alloy heads but it's usually better plus more compression gives more horse power. Good compression with good quench will make any engine run better no matter what heads you run. Don't know how old most here are but I remember low compression engines pinging their asses off during the beginning of emissions BS with lowered compression starting in 1970 and it only got worse as the years rolled on. The manufacturers lowered compression by dropping the compression height of the pistons and didn't bother with improving the combustion chambers of the heads. Lowered compression plus very poor quench distance equals ping city.

Yes,,,, I KNOW you don't HAVE to run higher compression, however it's said that you CAN run higher compression with aluminum heads do to the heat dissipation through the Aluminum VS Iron heads...and have similar ping characteristics between the two type vs ratio comparisons.
I have read different posts this summer by several members saying you HAD to run higher compression, and suggesting to the OP that it was a waist of time and money for him to switch to much more efficient aluminum heads because of this. This kind of ideology makes NO sense to me.. Heck, most of the aftermarket heads can me obtained in a lower CC to begin with raising compression in itself.... It's just the HAVE TO crap that bugs me...
Once again,,,, I am WELL aware of the fact that this MUST run, HAVE to use, more compression is BS, plain and simple...
I just thought it would be nice for IQ to post up the hard numbers for reference, when the conversation comes up again... It's hard to argue with a dyno when all other things are the same except a head swap.....

 

[BBishere2]

My '67 Coronet R/T has a '72 440 under the hood - I'm planning on putting the same Edelbrock Top End Kit on this motor - wanting some info on what pistons to get to replace the low compression ones in this motor. Not going for great HP - this is going to be a street driven weekend warrior - not on the strip - not planning on using their timing set - will put a double roller chain set on and a set of headers to replace the stock manifolds - already has a dual flow master setup for the exhaust - has the orange electric ignition box and a newer alternator on it - so it's a good start for a toy. Transmission is a 727 floor shift in console - that's going to be replaced with a B&M shifter sitting on the carpet between replacement bucket seats - has a 3.23 open 8.75" rear end - which will be changed to either a 3.55 or 3.73 posi. It'll be fed pump gas - so don't want real high compression - probably around 10:00 to 1 or thereabouts. These heads - Performer RPM have 84cc chambers - they claim the compression ratio s/b around 9.3:1 with stock pistons - but those are the 8.2:1 emission engine ones... ugh! Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Garys1969RR]

If you use a flat top piston such as a TRW, or sealed power, that is about .017" below the deck, and a .027" head gasket, that will get you about 10.2 to 1 C/R with 84 cc heads. That is with a .030 over size piston, and 4 cc valve reliefs. Using a .040 thick head gasket drops you to 9.9/1. But that also gives you a quench distance of .057" as opposed to .044" with a .027 gasket.

- - - Updated - - -

Just pay close attention to your piston Compression Height. Seems like 2.082 C/H gets you to zero deck. So find a flat top piston with a C/H of around 2.065" Then you will be .017" below deck.

- - - Updated - - -

The KB 237 has a C/H of 2.067". That would put you at .015" below deck with out decking the block. You could deck the block .015" and true it up, then have zero deck, with a .040" gasket such as the 8519, your C/R would be at 10.24 to 1. This sounds like the best way to go. You would have good quench, decent C/R, and a strong running 440 with the RPM heads.

 

[BBishere2]

The Edelbrock kit says it needs adjustable rockers but the Comp adjustables according to Summit, work with springs up to 1.54" diameter and the RPM heads are installed with 1.55" diameter springs. What has everyone used on these heads?

 

[Malicious]

Ive got an old toyota supra for track car as well so im used to having a giant anchor on top of the front wheels

Mk2 or 3? I've got a JDM JZA70, powerfc, twin blitz turbos lots of custom and JDM parts etc. Was thinking of selling it to fund the Coronet. ;) Hard to drive an import around here. Cops target them like snipers, so i hardley ever drove it. Its been sitting with the turbos off for about 2 years now. Should do something with it...

Side note, I was thinking of 6 pack with mild port stealth heads, then try and pic a cam. Little more expensive then the top end kit but the cam seams mild and I already have the same intake manifold... resell for mopar parts here is pretty average as Mopar left Australia for years. Most people are into Holden (GM) or ford.

 

[Garys1969RR]

The Edelbrock kit says it needs adjustable rockers but the Comp adjustables according to Summit, work with springs up to 1.54" diameter and the RPM heads are installed with 1.55" diameter springs. What has everyone used on these heads?

I am going to Eddy PERF RPM heads, and Crane Gold adj rocker arms. They came with the heads. And Edelbrock says that an adj valve train IS required with these heads, when using any cam with more valve lift than stock. I'm using the 509. The 915 heads have worked well on this 451 with stock valve train.

- - - Updated - - -

I would say that most engines will produce more Torque/Horse power with a C/R increase, all else being the same. Providing the fuel used is of high enough octane to prevent pinging/detonation. But it is difficult to raise C/R without changing something else at the same time. Usually quench distance or combustion chamber volume. And yes, I have seen big horse power figures with 9.5 or 10 to 1 C/R.

- - - Updated - - -

My motors run best at 12.5 or 13 to 1 C/R. But at a mile high, the air is rarified before the compression stroke even begins. Compared to sea level.

 

[robinsonwr]

The Eddy heads at 10-10.5-1 will run nicely on pump gas. Cam will be determined by rear gear, converter, carb. You could run a combo like my earlier post or go wilder, it's up to you. How much do you want to spend? Light pistons, hydraulic roller,aftermarket rods, low deck 400 block, stroker crank are all options. I've built several Eddy headed street 440 non strokers at various power levels. From the per-mentioned piece to a 10.80 B-Body. Non had ported heads. If I was building a motor from the ground up it would have 10.5-1 with a light a piston as possible ( higher comp might work on 91 but sometimes can be a pain), eagle rods, 230-235 hydraulic roller, Performer RPM hands down as the intake, Eddy 750-800. If I had the $ for a six-pack I'd spend it on porting.
Doug

DVW,
My engine combination for my 66' Plymouth is a 440/512 with the following parts:
Block: 1971 nonhp .060 overbore
Crank: Eagle 4.25 stroke (2.20 rod journals)
Rods: Eagle 7.1 h-beam (.990 pin)
Pistons: SRP
Compression: 10.5-11:1
Balancer: Professional Products 90013
Intake: Indy 4150 dual plane
Water Pump: (Housing)MP Performance Aluminum, (Pump) Milodon Aluminum
Oil Pan: Moroso 7 quart with pick up
Heads: 440 Source Stealth (929-16 springs, 741-16 retainers, 611-16 locks), ported 290cfm @ 600.
Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111.
Rocker Arms: Crane Cams Gold 1.6 (MP rocker hold downs)
lifters: Comp Cam 8921-16
Push Rods: Smith Bros. Custom
Carb: 950 CFM holley
Exhaust: 1968 HP Manifolds or Hooker 2" primary's

My 66' Satellite will be a street beast. I will be running a manual valve body 727 with a 3000 stall converter. The rear gears currently are 3:23 in the 8.75 rear with a sure grip. I am currently rebuilding the rear suspension with XHD springs, ADDCO 7/8" sway bar, and Rancho 9000 RS99116 shocks. Yes, Rancho 9-way adjustable shocks. The car will be stock appearing all the way down to 14" wheels and hubcaps. I hope the combination will make 575hp and 600+tq. I hope to have pictures soon of the engine assembly. My machinist has been unable to get to my project in recent months.

 

[MT_Mopar]

DVW,
My engine combination for my 66' Plymouth is a 440/512 with the following parts:
Block: 1971 nonhp .060 overbore
Crank: Eagle 4.25 stroke (2.20 rod journals)
Rods: Eagle 7.1 h-beam (.990 pin)
Pistons: SRP
Compression: 10.5-11:1
Balancer: Professional Products 90013
Intake: Indy 4150 dual plane
Water Pump: (Housing)MP Performance Aluminum, (Pump) Milodon Aluminum
Oil Pan: Moroso 7 quart with pick up
Heads: 440 Source Stealth (929-16 springs, 741-16 retainers, 611-16 locks), ported 290cfm @ 600.
Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111.
Rocker Arms: Crane Cams Gold 1.6 (MP rocker hold downs)
lifters: Comp Cam 8921-16
Push Rods: Smith Bros. Custom
Carb: 950 CFM holley
Exhaust: 1968 HP Manifolds or Hooker 2" primary's

My 66' Satellite will be a street beast. I will be running a manual valve body 727 with a 3000 stall converter. The rear gears currently are 3:23 in the 8.75 rear with a sure grip. I am currently rebuilding the rear suspension with XHD springs, ADDCO 7/8" sway bar, and Rancho 9000 RS99116 shocks. Yes, Rancho 9-way adjustable shocks. The car will be stock appearing all the way down to 14" wheels and hubcaps. I hope the combination will make 575hp and 600+tq. I hope to have pictures soon of the engine assembly. My machinist has been unable to get to my project in recent months.

I would love to see some pics! Get that machinist going on that baby.

 

[robinsonwr]

MT_Mopar,
As soon as I can I will get some pictures posted. We are supposed to do a dyno session also. I will post the results even if it hurts my feelings.