Lower control arm stiffening plates?

[gkent]

IMO it's important that modifications be made of the basis of reasoning,

Sometimes having the part off and sitting on the bench is "reason" enough. Why do people take it upon themselves to clean things up while they have them apart even though they'd work fine as is. Your logic is flawed.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I've read a lot about LCAs getting sloppy around the torsion bar adjuster. Things get worn out. With a stiffening plate, is this less likely to occurr? I say it is. And no, I'm not going to scientifically test my theory. I'm just going to say it is without anything to back it up.

Glad we got that out of the way.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Sometimes having the part off and sitting on the bench is "reason" enough. Why do people take it upon themselves to clean things up while they have them apart even though they'd work fine as is. Your logic is flawed.

You would have to ask them and thank you for your opinion.

 

[j-c-c-62]

You need any butter?

 

[T2R9]

You need any butter?

Go back to Moparts. OP asked a simple question and you nuked it to the moon.

 

[Kern Dog]

In many cases, I support questioning what other people choose to do.
Being the curious type, I often feel a need to know why things are popular.
Some people get all pissy when they are questioned and I suspect that many times it is because they have no legitimate explanation for why they do what they do.

 

[66 Sat]

In many cases, I support questioning what other people choose to do.
Being the curious type, I often feel a need to know why things are popular.
Some people get all pissy when they are questioned and I suspect that many times it is because they have no legitimate explanation for why they do what they do.

Agreed, but anyone who has removed an LCA and witnessed first hand the loose socket and studied the design and lack of bracing underneath and witnessed how much better the LCA operated after being clamped and the plates welded on, anyone that has any ounce of logical engineering deduction (and that could come from working in other fields, even building Lego as a kid etc), anyone who's not argumentative for the sake of it (like your man j-c-c), they would generally all agree the plates are a good idea.

As for the thickness of the plates, the above again applies. They need to thick enough to weld, thick enough in comparison to the subject matter. You get a feel for these things, and don't need a computer or complex data to work it out. There will be an optimal thickness but "home engineering" will get you close enough.

Questions for j-c-c:
1. If the original design is perfect why do the sockets become loose over time? Was this intentional by design?

2. If you remove the LCAs on your own car to replace the LCA bushing and the sockets are loose, will you simply re-install without attempting to fix?

 

[dadsbee]

 

[WileE]

Whatever anyone may say... in my experience, getting stiff always provided good results.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Agreed, but anyone who has removed an LCA and witnessed first hand the loose socket and studied the design and lack of bracing underneath and witnessed how much better the LCA operated after being clamped and the plates welded on, anyone that has any ounce of logical engineering deduction (and that could come from working in other fields, even building Lego as a kid etc), anyone who's not argumentative for the sake of it (like your man j-c-c), they would generally all agree the plates are a good idea.

As.for the thickness of the plates, the above again applies. They need to thick enough to weld, thick enough in comparison to the subject matter. You get a feel for these things, and don't need a computer or complex data to work it out. There will be an optimal thickness but "home engineering" will get you close enough.

Questions for j-c-c:
1. If the original design is perfect why do they sockets become loose over time? Was this intentional by design?

2. If you remove the LCAs on your own car to replace the LCA bushing and the sockets are loose, will you simply re-install without attempting to fix?

1. Except it's rare that anybody is buying stiffening plates before disassembly to repair a loose unknown socket.
They are discovering a loose socket after the fact. The loose socket is usually from wear over time. The stiffening bracket does NOT address the wear seen directly well.
2. Since the looseness you note is often a matter of degree and therefore somewhat subjective. I am not convinced it plays a big part in improvement in the handling of our cars, and the topic of this thread that the OP asked about "thoughts" on the matter, the stiffening plates are IMO a rather poor band aid anyway to address that looseness noted. The looseness of concern mentioned is nearly impossible to observe/measure on a car in road ready conditions.

And no, I do not agree any proposed solution is a good idea until the actual problem needed to be solved is defined first, good engineering and all.
Nobody has yet made the case there is any lack of bracing underneath except for contact with concrete walls.
It is interesting and somewhat entertaining on the plethora of justifications offered for this solution over the years, mostly after the fact.
And be civil enough not to paint others with your broad brush because they also try to think for themselves.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Go back to Moparts. OP asked a simple question and you nuked it to the moon.

So, we get to tell each other were to go?

BTW, takes two or in this case a dozen to tango, I ain't afraid of no nukes.

 

[66 Sat]

1. Except it's rare that anybody is buying stiffening plates before disassembly to repair a loose unknown socket.
They are discovering a loose socket after the fact. The loose socket is usually from wear over time. The stiffening bracket does NOT address the wear seen directly well.
2. Since the looseness you note is often a matter of degree and therefore somewhat subjective. I am not convinced it plays a big part in improvement in the handling of our cars, and the topic of this thread that the OP asked about "thoughts" on the matter, the stiffening plates are IMO a rather poor band aid anyway to address that looseness noted. The looseness of concern mentioned is nearly impossible to observe/measure on a car in road ready conditions.

And no, I do not agree any proposed solution is a good idea until the actual problem needed to be solved is defined first, good engineering and all.
Nobody has yet made the case there is any lack of bracing underneath except for contact with concrete walls.
It is interesting and somewhat entertaining on the plethora of justifications offered for this solution over the years, mostly after the fact.
And be civil enough not to paint others with your broad brush because they also try to think for themselves.

I was being civil, and after all that text you wrote you failed to answer either of my questions to you.

 

[gkent]

This is for j-c-c-62 :

 

[Sam69sat]

This is for j-c-c-62 :

View attachment 1781064

That's a twig. Or is it a branch?

 

[kiwigtx]

I do have to call out the term (now deleted) I first read in this thread referring to "Engineering Karens", is a classic and a keeper.

 

[kiwigtx]

This is for j-c-c-62 :

View attachment 1781064

Is that a dried stick or a pre-spring stick about to bud?

 

[Rishi]

it's a divining rod. it tells you where the max wedge blocks are buried in the back 40.

 

[kiwigtx]

it's a divining rod. it tells you where the max wedge blocks are buried in the back 40.

I bet they turn out to be 413 Industrial blocks. <----- Hey, I found another stick.

 

[Rishi]

Whatever anyone may say... in my experience, getting stiff always provided good results.

except in the men's locker room.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I was being civil, and after all that text you wrote you failed to answer either of my questions to you.

How about this:
1. I do not accept anything is "perfect" and have never made that statement
2. Maybe, or choose another more focused solution to reduce radial play or "looseness".

And "civil" referred to "anyone who's not argumentative for the sake of it (like your man j-c-c)"