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MAD/Nacho Electrical Wiring mods

I'm posting a drawing I made of 72RoadRunnerGTX's modification that he did to his car (which I assume is a 72 RoadRunner GTX). My drawing shows factory wires that would be removed as dashed lines. Wires represented as solid lines are either newly added or stock that remain after the 72GTX modification.

What ramifications, if any, result from running a wire straight from the Alternator to the the Ammeter gauge? By doing this, current runs from Alternator to the black post on Ammeter, then from there to Weld Splice #1. Makes me believe Battery is first in line to draw current, then secondarily the other circuits of the car. Battery is first priority to get juice.

Factory has current run from Alternator to Weld Splice #1 first, then from there to the Ammeter guage. Makes me believe other car circuits are first in line to draw current, then secondarily the battery (if there is any left to draw). Other circuits of car first priority.

Maybe either way, Alt to Ammeter or Alt to Weld Splice, makes no difference in the flow of current??
To clarify, the pictures I’ve posted in this thread are of three different cars, ’72 RR/GTX, ’72 Satellite, ’70 Challenger. The b-bodies are mine, the e-body I’m currently building for another. All wired basically the same as it relates to the charging system.

Your diagram appears correct, but not following the concerns with load priority. Does not matter where the loads are connected in that circuit segment. With electricity traveling at the speed of light, a few inches won’t mater a bit.

Understand the concerns with additional holes in the firewall, I have similar concerns with unnecessary holes but consider this purpose to be necessary.
 
If you don’t want to drill through the firewall you can drill a hole on the bulkhead connector below the bottom plug. There should be enough room and would be undetectable.
I'm not seeing where there would be room to drill a hole or two smaller holes through the bulkhead connector. Where is "below the bottom plug"?

The only part of my connector that protrudes through the firewall is the region inside the black gasket. Most of that white area inside the gasket gets covered up by the harnesses once they are plugged into the bulkhead connector. Maybe might could squeeze a hole on the far left or right side. Top and bottom, no room at all once harnesses are attached.

Photo is of my old heat damaged bulkhead connector.

IMG_4440.jpg
 
One the other hand, I'm quite sure NONE of these MOPAR Wellborn cars that were auctioned off this past January, had any such "modification" performed on their charging circuits. An they all probably have the "factory" Packard 58 connectors intact. BUT, I'm also sure the wiring harnessess and bulkhead disconnect, in them, are NOT 50 years old either. So if the connections are NEW, then I wouldn't think they'd be burning up 6 months later..

https://www.mecum.com/auctions/kiss...-vehicles-from-the-wellborn-musclecar-museum/
The use of those Packard connectors in the bulkhead for high current circuits is by far the weakest link in that charging system, has been a problem from the start. They were being replaced and/or by-passed at the dealers since the seventies. May have already stated that in this thread.
 
The use of those Packard connectors in the bulkhead for high current circuits is by far the weakest link in that charging system, has been a problem from the start. They were being replaced and/or by-passed at the dealers since the seventies. May have already stated that in this thread.

Of particular interest to me is how Chrysler engineers were "failures" by using 12 gauge wiring and Packard 58 connectors in the charging circuit. And why Tim Wellborn caliber cars (and the most valuable Mopars on the planet, 1971 Hemicuda convertibles), almost certainly don't implement the charging circuit modifications discussed on this forum. Which includes drilling non factory holes in the firewall of very valuable cars. If the factory charging circuit is so terrible, why do the owners of these million dollar cars, keep them intact? So they will hopefully catch fire and burn to a crisp?

I would like to know what the Million dollar car owner thinking is for them to risk keeping their charging circuit, firewall and harnesses stock, if a connector meltdown might torch their car and destroy their investment. I have been looking for evidence of the bypassing modification on these high end extremely valuable cars. I figure if anyone should be doing this kind of modification, it should be them, to protect such expensive investments.

I know it's possible to not have a problem with the stock system, as I had one in a 1971 Challenger for over 12 years as a daily driver, and my only car, driven almost every day. The wiring harnesses and bulkhead connector were original pieces, 15 to 28 years old at time of ownership. Never had to touch them. In contrast, my Super Bee had connectors fry, though I did notice the engine harness bottom locking tab was completely broken off and missing. Perhaps only being locked at the top and not bottom allowed it to get jarred and loosened a bit..

I'm just questioning if this problem is really as BAD and as FREQUENTLY occurring as described on this forum. Especially after installing new Packard connectors.
 
High dollar collector cars? For the most part don’t see real word conditions, don’t get driven, and are never exposed to moisture in any form. Bone stock, no additional electrical loads, driven only when the sun is out, never stored outdoors, no exposure to high humidity. You may never have an issue again.
 
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For the most don’t see real word conditions, don’t get driven, and are never exposed to moisture in any form. Bone stock, no additional electrical loads, driven only when the sun is out, never stored outdoors, no exposure to high humidity. You may never have an issue again.
I have to laugh, because it sounds like you are describing my car.. Just missing the high dollar value part..

- don’t get driven ( only driven 3.8 miles in the past 10 months, because of all the work I'm having to do to it to make it drivable, and the little free time I have available to do it )
- bone stock ( almost )
- no additional electrical loads ( only power window and hidden headlight conversion )
- driven only when the sun is out ( have no plans to drive this car in the rain, ever )
- never stored outdoors ( always garaged, but not climate controlled )
- no exposure to high humidity ( car is in Phoenix Aridzona, we've had one day of rain in the past 5 months.. we need some rain badly )

I see you are in Seattle. Your car must be exposed to high humidity and maybe driven in the rain too.
 
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@72RoadrunnerGTX I was hoping you'd comment on my post #59, which was about replacing the Packard connectors for the two charging wires with PP30 30 Amp Powerpole connectors, and retaining the stock 12 gauge wires. Seems like that would be an improvement over stock if I decide to bypass.. I have no idea what the max amp rating is on the Packard 58 to compare to the PP30 in that respect. Only that PP30 is supposed to be a more reliable connection.
 
While I do support the mod I would say that the possibility of a problem occurring really depends on the car, its past and overall condition. I have seen some cars that were relatively pristine whereas others have melted wires.
 
Remove the male Packard 58 connectors from the two harnesses, and crimp a Powerpole PP30 onto those two wires. Attach a Powerpole black and red plastic housing to each accordingly. Route red wire from Ammeter out hole in firewall, pull wire through hole into engine compartment with Powerpole PP30 crimped on end. After wire has been passed through hole, push connector into another red plastic housing. Do the same steps with the Black wire running from Welded Splice #1 through hole in firewall.
I would certainly trust the Power Pole connectors for current handling over anything thing else for that circuit, I just don’t see the need for any disconnects there at all. The fewer the connections the better. The only reason the bulkhead connections exists is the allow for quick assembly on the assembly line. If I was sticking with the stock alternator output/12 ga wires, no added loads, I would still by-pass the any connections at the bulkhead, wire straight through to the ammeter for maximum reliability.

Don’t tell anyone, but it really doesn’t rain here year-round. I do drive my cars as much as possible, don’t fear them getting wet, they were re-built/restored with water resistance in mind from the ground up, but don’t intentionally drive them in the rain and are garaged when not in use.
 
let's see, "high dollar cars" ( mostly of the time being show cars ) don't have extra added equipments incorrectly sourced from batt post which is one of the most common mistakes ever made on our cars, neither have been driven enough. Aside this, the next big mistake is replace the battery with a higher reserve load than the stock one keeping the same alternator. This multiplies the load charge time on the battery ( with an uneficient alt ) adding more stress on the charging circuit for longer periods.

about your worries.

1- doesn't make sense get an 8 wire on red side being the stock one between starter relay and battery still a 10 gauge wire ( and of course 16 gauge fuse link )
2- with an alt upgraded ( AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THINK, YOU NEED A GOOD ALTERNATOR TO KEEP SAFE THE CHARGING SYSTEM AND THIS INCLUDES THE WIRING AND TERMINALS ), your battery wire ( red line ) won't get the same stress than before the upgrade because the battery will barelly be requested for loads, so once again, you don't need an 8 gauge wire for the red line.
3- we can see on your old bulkhead the bigger stress is on the black wire cavity. This is because along the years not only suffered the load requested by all the car circuits but also the load requested when batt was discharged, while the red wire just "suffers" the charge status when is discharged, hence the reason the red wire survives better to all these years, mostly sure because your car didn't have added accesories on batt side... or just one ( i.e. headlights relay ). So another reason why you won't have to worry about get the red wire upgraded to 8, while is enough upgrade it from the 12 stock wire gauge to 10 and removing the packard terminal which is actually the WEAKEST point, not really the wire.

I simply suggest wat I will make, even more with a new fresh/renewed/mantenienced installation made... and don't over think more this.

Alt feeding COMPLETELLY the car, with parallel wires2.jpg


the reason why I suggest this is:
1-the main splice will be getting power from both sides, bulkhead leg, and ammeter leg. This makes a better source for the splice not just getting the ammeter ledge in just one 12 gauge wire, but two of them ( 12 gauge ) as indicated on graphic.
2-Using still the existant and fixed/mantenienced 12 wire between alt and splice, there is no reason to have a 8 wire on the bulkhead bypass path. You will be using 10+12 gauge wires which is the same than use one single 8 gauge wire.
3-I removed on diagram ( and will make the same on my car when reassembling ) the stock red wire on engine bay, because:
3a-simplicity using JUST ONE FUSE LINK from my previous setup
3b-is SAFER just use ONE FUSE LINK, because dual will take longer to get blown while the failure burns whatever gets to burn
3c-As mentioned, with an upgraded alt this wire barelly will see any load for long time, or high peaks.


Now, I know 72RoadrunnerGTX is not convinced about keep the stock wire because is still with the packard terminal on the line and I can understand it, however I can testify my car has beeng running like this FOOOOOR YEEEEEEARS, being a TRULLY DRIVER CAR, EVERYDAY ALL DAY LONG... AND NIGHTS, And I have not just two but 6 RELAYS installed down the dash frame, because I USED THE A/C too daily. And I added a relay to each speed, aside the headlight relays. ALL RELAYS are being sourced from ammeter black stud. Of course the max relay sucking power will be 2 althought it could get 3 activated ( but still just two sucking loads )


This has been my setup for YEARS, and the only difference with my next step to be build will be:
1- not anymore stock red wire on engine bay and double fuse link
2- will be using a molded quick disconect plug... however, I INSTALLED on the upgrade lines regular bullet kind terminals sealed with shrinking tubes because I like VERSATILITY. I like get the chance to disconect any wire anytime just like Mopar did.

Alt feeding COMPLETELLY the car, with parallel wires.jpg



These are the terminals I used to be able to disconecty the parallel paths on engine bay side ( on red wire is the one I used to link it with fuse link, which would be the disconect point on red line ), but mainly because these terminals are what I could find in Venezuela.

Bullet-Terminal.jpg


and now will be using this, because it gets a better look ( more professional and "automotive stockish" look )

TP10.jpg


The quick release loop I got is 2 feet long which should be enough to cut one long side to reach the ammeter from engine bay side without splices, and use the short side to splice the rest of wiring on engine bay. Red splice will be mostly sure innecesary on my car because I can use that cut to attach the fuse link with bullet terminals, but my 74 gets the starter relay just right above the brake booster, somehow close to bulkhead. 71/72 get the relay at a side of the batt, so splice the red wire to reach starter relay will be mandatory.


ASIDE THIS, I used 8 gauge wire on the black path on my car but just because I had that wire already in hands from a donor 76/78 B body full harness setup ( which uses a shunt system ) I got from a JY, but as mentioned, will change for a 10 gauge and I really trust on that.

I began using a 60 ams alt, then got a 78 amps alternator but now I'm running this ( with smaller pulley which I changed ), which I can't tell is really a 100 amps alt ( I don't think Chrysler ever made these on that rate, still with the box and decals ), but it works like a champ, even I still want more at iddle and will upgrade someday to a TuffStuff or PowerMaster trully 100 amps able to give 65 iddling

IMG_1712a.JPG


IMG_1716a.JPG

IMG_1714a.JPG



AAAAAAND TRUST ME... my car before get dissasembled, has been a DRIVER CAR DAY AFTER DAY ALL DAY LONG ( with its nights ) on a dense traffic city for 6 or 7 years with the second diagram wiring job I posted on this reply. I had a girfriend on another city and I drove it to his home weekly, and traveled on vacations to some other parts in the country with it ( and her )... running A/C, at nights, down the rain ( wipers sucks A LOT, just like the A/C blower )!!! etc...
 
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Is There a Step By Step On This or Diagram?

Do I Need To Add Any Extra Wires Anywhere?

Thanks
 
Hi… the extra wires are posted on diagrams. No step by step process made. I think the diagram is pretty much self explained… isn’t?
 
Hi all, first post here. Have been reading off this forum for a bit now and wanted to discuss some changes between the two mods.

I like the idea of both mods but am leaning towards nacho's idea because i'd like to keep the ammeter in play. It saved me from melting my harness already (went full field) which gave me enough time to stop and shut the engine off and if it wasn't for the ammeter doing its job it wouldn't have ended well. The car in question is a 1966 coronet, low options (no a/c) and am using a 100amp tuff stuff alt.

So according to Nacho's upgrade, he does a parallel wiring routing for the charging and bat feed system. Now he said that he recommends 8ga charging and 10ga bat feed wires and leave the oem wiring in place. It seems really great but there is still power running through the bulkhead which may have fixed the wires/bulkhead from burning up completely but i thought to maybe it would be even better to disconnect the small gauge wires completely from the bulkhead and instead run a 6ga charge wire (rated to 150amps as per manufacturer) and a 8ga batt feed. I would the feed from the alt via 6ga straight to the amm but also hook up the original wiring inside the dash and de-pin the oem charging cable from the bulkhead. This would allow me to leave the dash side harness unmodified so it can feed the car as normal. Same deal for the for the batt feed remove/de-pin the oem wire and then replace with 14ga fuse link and 8ga wire. I put in a pic of nacho's diagram that i modified slightly to help explain.

If anyone could chime in with some insight or thoughts i'd appreciate it, Thanks

View attachment 800379
Bear in mind that Nacho copies all his "ideas" elsewhere and claims them as his own inventions. He has ZERO qualifications to substantiate his claims or knowledge......just ask for his calculations or references that he used....such as Ohms Law or Kickoffs node analysis ....the guy is a hack........believe what you want....its your vehicle.......
BOB RENTON
 
I Just Ran a 6 Gauge Wire With a Fusible Link To The Starter Relay and Tied The Ammeter Wires Together Under The Dash.

Running a Voltmeter
 
Bear in mind that Nacho copies all his "ideas" elsewhere and claims them as his own inventions. He has ZERO qualifications to substantiate his claims or knowledge......just ask for his calculations or references that he used....such as Ohms Law or Kickoffs node analysis ....the guy is a hack........believe what you want....its your vehicle.......
BOB RENTON

as usual, you never take your time to read, but just to attack.

i never say is my idea:


I will get deep on this later ( I'm barelly waking up LOL ) but just some initial notes:

The "Nacho's upgrade" is just an idea taken from the original Chrysler idea installed on fleet cars, using a high load path throught the firewall.

What's the difference on my suggestion? If your car still have an useable stock path, meaning non burnt or melted down at bulkhead, the stock paths can be still used and install a parallel path.


What's the advantage on keep the original path on alt side at least? The main splice inside the cab will be still beng feeded from alt by two 12 gauge wires, the one coming from bulkhead and the line coming from ammeter where you are installing the parallel path, thing what won't happen removing the stock one and installing just the larger bypass through the firewall, where is true you can use a 8 gauge wire but the main splice will be still getting just the 12 gauge wire between amm and splice.

After this, STILL installing the bypass or parallel wire up to ammeter, if you keep the stock output alt the swinging ammeter reading will remain the same, so then, the loads coming and going throught the ammeter won't be saved and heat will be playing yet there. BOTH upgrades must be worked at the same time... wiring to save the paths and alt to save the loads at ammeter.

Remember your car will be still requesting same load no matter where it comes from, alt, batt or both together. If you save your car from take loads coming from batt and the most as posible from alt, the ammeter won't get the load going throught when alt is not enough, so all the loads will be playing from alt side, meaning out of the ammeter play. No load there, no heat there.

At the same time, if your batt never or barelly gets discharged because you got a good alt, then the battery won't suck loads to be recharged back, once again, no load to charge running throught the ammeter.

i have life frustrations, but your personal life must be even worst!!!
 
the guy is a hack......
Nacho walked me through several electrical wiring additions on my ’63 a couple years ago as I installed a console from a Lincoln having an idiot light bar initially for low fuel, door ajar, etc. Wired it to signal brake lights, turn signals, headlights, etc. He was SPOT ON obtaining the desired results. He also did the same for instructions rewiring the ammeter; installed all the wiring, but have yet to do the gauge connect. Every time I have to friggin remove the cluster damned if something gets skanked. Paid a ton for re-chroming so waiting for an added reason to take it out again to complete it.

Around that time was having ills with the BH I eventually replaced. BH was seriously melted at amm connections. MO, was a for total **** design and go figure, police car editions for my ride had a better setup bypassing BH. But, as posted, no car mfg expects or engineer’s cars to be on the road for a half-century.

Nacho was ever-patient taking time out of day as we chatted back & forth. MO, knows his stuff. Never condescending always polite. WTF..
 
At least Nacho helps people vs being a condescending prick that won't let anyone forget that he has a pinky ring.
 
A couple of months ago, I sought out Nacho via a PM regarding a dash wiring harness issue. He walked me through it over a several day period. I greatly appreciated his help & willingness to share his knowledge……..
 
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