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Meep's track day recap...

Meep-Meep

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Well, the six pack was an abysmal failure. It started off strong then a few feet into the run it fell flat on its face. Back to the drawing board.

As a side note I did get a chance to weigh the car and it was heavier than I expected. 3735 without me and 3905 going down the track with the spare, the jack, lug wrench and Mrs. Frenzel’s broom and dust pan in the trunk. This at least makes me feel better when I take my best run so far (12.80 @ 107) and factor in the HP numbers. Previously I figured on 3700 as raced weight.

Yesterday I couldn’t get out of the 13’s (13.40’s) and trap speed was 105, lowest so far. I ran with 4.10’s, which were better suited for my combo, and RPM through the lights was about 6100. I think 3.91’s will be better yet and should drop the RPM by another 300 or so. The published top end for that cam (MoPar .455" / 272) is 5800. Best MPH (109) was with the M1 intake or the factory iron, 3.55’s and street tires. Oil pressure through the lights at 6000 RPM was a solid 70 PSI and I got a little lifter pump up at 6300 – acted like a miss – but it was very subtle. Otherwise smooth sailing all the way up to 6K.

My thoughts are the outboard carbs are coming in too quick even though I put the black springs in the vacuum pods. On the last run I even put an extra spring on the linkage and it still fell on its face. Since I can’t see the carbs work the issue is a guess at this point.

Another theory is the fuel is sloshing in the bowl during acceleration and spilling into the outboard carbs because the bowl vent is not very tall, however, no black smoke was reported.

Or, someone blocked the secondary vacuum bleed, assuming it has one. Vac secondary 4 BBL Holleys have a passage that bleeds off the vacuum signal to the secondary diaphragm to soften their actuation and if this is blocked they will respond like a double pumper. I got these carbs used and did find the vacuum pod springs were the lightest ones, and cut down at that, so tampering is a possibility. Also, the 6 BBL carbs have huge diaphragms so I’m sure the Holley spring guide is not accurate in this case.

The reduced trap speed indicates it's down on power, and I think it's too rich for the following reasons: With the 750 AFB it would ping on hard acceleration but not with the 6 BBL. With the AFB it wouldn't idle cold without a choke but it does with the 6 BBL. No question the AFB so far is king on this engine combo but I do have hope the 6 BBL will outperform it with tuning.

Need to do some research for sure, but I can say with some certainty that what feels pretty good on the street is about as good as a promise made by a politician.
 
Well it sounds like another great day of race track fun, regardless of the outcome!!! I'm ready for my day at the strip too!!!
 
Hey uncle, I got a nice holley 750hp you can try with that M1 intake if you want to go 111mph :)

Jus ribbin ya.

It looked to me like more fuel slosh than anything. I was about 22.3 feet from you one time and about 186.4 feet from you another time.

It launched good hard and straight for the first 30 foot or so then would stumble really bad then off again.

I dunno. I have only seen about 20 6 pack setups and that was all from a distance. Never touched one.

Hard runnin combo regardless.
 
This is some good info here Meeps, as you know I am planing on the six barrel set-up for my bird as well, however the B engine version. Thanks for posting your trials and tribulations.
 
I hate carb problems....trial and error...
then one day the right combo WORKS!

still after 45 years of farting around with carbs I know ,

squattttt.:angry9:

I will follow this thread close,
Sonny
 
Meeps did you change accel. pumps or cams or Discharge nozzles/squirter's ?? I had a similar issue on my 383/479-6bbl combo, I went to a 50cc pump, a pink cam & a #31 squirter w/hollow screw & a Quickfuel adjustable metering block with 2 x #66 jets, 4.5 power valve, Promax rear adjustable metering plate with 2 x #84 & 2 x #80 jets staggered on the outboard carbs, with stock vacuum diaphragm springs, w/K&N 3" 6bbl filter, no stumble at all now, I needed to fatten her up even, it had a very slight lean surge at higher speeds in 3rd gear {I think anyway, it might have been plug wires or coil too, cars sold a while back, I kept the 6bbl hood & manifold/carbs for my current 68 RR HT}, I do use a Aeromotive S/S 170gpm electric pump {not any mechanical fuel pump} mounted down low by the frame rear rails, with #6 line feeding the carbs, a large 16oz Aeromotive canister filter before the electric pump, feed by a Mancini Racing 3/8" pick-up/fuel sending unit, in the new Mancini Racing stock style 19gal fuel tank, then a Holley Bypass style fuel regulator & gauge, about a foot, from the front fitting for the stock type 6bbl fuel-inlet lines, set at 7psi flowing with a #4 return line, all the way back to the tank, thru the original 1/4" evap canister nipple on the sending unit @ the tank, this same set up fat on my little 383ci @ 0.040" over 276*/284* with 0.520"/0.545" hyd. roller & 1.6:1 Crane Super Gold Roller Rockers, 10:1 near zero deck w/valve relieved, with original 68 block & "mildly ported", mostly just pocket work, on Edelbrock RPM 84cc Aluminum heads, it runs great, pulls freaken' hard thru all gears, even up-to about 6000-6200rpm, haven't tried to go past that in 1st & second, doesn't need to, for my little engine combo haven't got the little engine combo to the track yet... I don't know if this will help your combo at all, I've had a ton of 6BBL's this is by-far the best running combo I've done to date, {I wish I had an 383/400 STR-w/6bbl top, to try it on}, this combo went 9.77et @ 135mph in my old RR 3520#'s plus my 250#'s, at Sacramento Raceway test & tune, a while ago now, 100* day with a corrected alt. of something like 1500-1800ft, with more "solid roller" camshaft & a similar 383/479ci 11.0:1 flat top, w/Ported Eddy RPM's 80cc/320+cfm combo, 1-7/8 TTI #383178c headers w/custom merge 4-2-1 x 3" collectors, thru 3" mandrel bent tubing w/H-pipe installed 20" from the collectors & Flowmaster "Delta Flow 50" exhaust out the rear, 727 w/3800rpm stall, 3.91:1 gears, CalTracs & old crappy M/T P315/50 drag Radials, 4pt cage/roll Bar was my limiting factor, outdated harness, as soon as they saw I only had a 4pt cage/roll Bar, they said "enough, no more faster than 11.50's" or I had to leave....
 

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Sounded like a fun day

Well, the six pack was an abysmal failure. It started off strong then a few feet into the run it fell flat on its face. Back to the drawing board.

As a side note I did get a chance to weigh the car and it was heavier than I expected. 3735 without me and 3905 going down the track with the spare, the jack, lug wrench and Mrs. Frenzel’s broom and dust pan in the trunk. This at least makes me feel better when I take my best run so far (12.80 @ 107) and factor in the HP numbers. Previously I figured on 3700 as raced weight.

Yesterday I couldn’t get out of the 13’s (13.40’s) and trap speed was 105, lowest so far. I ran with 4.10’s, which were better suited for my combo, and RPM through the lights was about 6100. I think 3.91’s will be better yet and should drop the RPM by another 300 or so. The published top end for that cam (MoPar .455" / 272) is 5800. Best MPH (109) was with the M1 intake or the factory iron, 3.55’s and street tires. Oil pressure through the lights at 6000 RPM was a solid 70 PSI and I got a little lifter pump up at 6300 – acted like a miss – but it was very subtle. Otherwise smooth sailing all the way up to 6K.

My thoughts are the outboard carbs are coming in too quick even though I put the black springs in the vacuum pods. On the last run I even put an extra spring on the linkage and it still fell on its face. Since I can’t see the carbs work the issue is a guess at this point.

Another theory is the fuel is sloshing in the bowl during acceleration and spilling into the outboard carbs because the bowl vent is not very tall, however, no black smoke was reported.

Or, someone blocked the secondary vacuum bleed, assuming it has one. Vac secondary 4 BBL Holleys have a passage that bleeds off the vacuum signal to the secondary diaphragm to soften their actuation and if this is blocked they will respond like a double pumper. I got these carbs used and did find the vacuum pod springs were the lightest ones, and cut down at that, so tampering is a possibility. Also, the 6 BBL carbs have huge diaphragms so I’m sure the Holley spring guide is not accurate in this case.

The reduced trap speed indicates it's down on power, and I think it's too rich for the following reasons: With the 750 AFB it would ping on hard acceleration but not with the 6 BBL. With the AFB it wouldn't idle cold without a choke but it does with the 6 BBL. No question the AFB so far is king on this engine combo but I do have hope the 6 BBL will outperform it with tuning.

Need to do some research for sure, but I can say with some certainty that what feels pretty good on the street is about as good as a promise made by a politician.

Wish I could have been there & probably should have....
 
Hey uncle, I got a nice holley 750hp you can try with that M1 intake if you want to go 111mph :)

Jus ribbin ya.

It looked to me like more fuel slosh than anything. I was about 22.3 feet from you one time and about 186.4 feet from you another time.

It launched good hard and straight for the first 30 foot or so then would stumble really bad then off again.

I dunno. I have only seen about 20 6 pack setups and that was all from a distance. Never touched one.

Hard runnin combo regardless.


Thanks for the offer but I may have that 750 covered
 

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Nice going ! :hello2: Now where are them track pics ? Ron
 
Sonoma Wednesday nights?

I remember when you could go to Vacaville 1/8 mile or Baylands/Fremont 1/4 mile Wed. nights, Sonoma/Sears Point Thursday nights, Sacramento Friday nights & then, test & tune at Fremont, Sacramento or Sears Point, Saturdays when they didn't have a race event... You could usually race 4-5 days a week when you wanted to.... almost year round :3gears:
 
OK, so I did some investigation on my carbs and found the secondary diaphragm air bleeds were .045" vs. .067" when comparing to another 6 BBL carb I have. I went and opened the bleed holes on the car to .067" so we'll see if that helps. Making this hole larger will slow down the secondary opening.
 
OK, so I did some investigation on my carbs and found the secondary diaphragm air bleeds were .045" vs. .067" when comparing to another 6 BBL carb I have. I went and opened the bleed holes on the car to .067" so we'll see if that helps. Making this hole larger will slow down the secondary opening.

Meeps please if you still can, post-up some photos of what your talking about so, everyone is on the same page... I know you & I talked about the stuff, maybe others here could learn from it to, there is also Holley's website, under the Technical tab ,then resources, downloads & document, they had exploded views of the 2300 3x2bbl Carbs you can access & download in a PDF file....
 
ANY day running at the track, is better than having a wife/boss on your back day!
 
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Meeps please if you still can, post-up some photos of what your talking about so, everyone is on the same page... I know you & I talked about the stuff, maybe others here could learn from it to, there is also Holley's website, under the Technical tab ,then resources, downloads & document, they had exploded views of the 2300 3x2bbl Carbs you can access & download in a PDF file....

I thought I did that last night! Seriously, I did! And I only had one glass of wine so not like I was loaded and imagining it. I'll try again. Is this the Twilight Zone forum? Geez!
 
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