Mid Air Collision in DC

[j-c-c-62]

A lot in last few hours is made about both aircraft being at same altitude.
Duh, how else could they collide?
However, I have yet to see an aircraft land that was not at some point at EVERY altitude as it is landing.
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[khryslerkid]

No survivors. What a shame watching the radar and listening to the communications.

 

[not so famous bob]

No survivors. What a shame watching the radar and listening to the communications.

I didn't read all these posts , been watching it on newsmax and fox , to me it sounds like an "air traffic controller'' screwed up , you`d think atc would be monitering all air traffic if in the same area , military or not . Sounds like too little too late , out of the tower !!!

 

[not so famous bob]

I do wonder why the TCAS (collision avoidance system) didn't alert the AA flight unless having the blackhawk fly up into the AA plane is a blind spot? There would have been only seconds though.

again the air traffic controller in the tower should have caught it "WAY" earlier !!

 

[khryslerkid]

I didn't read all these posts , been watching it on newsmax and fox , to me it sounds like an "air traffic controller'' screwed up , you`d think atc would be monitering all air traffic if in the same area , military or not . Sounds like too little too late , out of the tower !!!

Post #18 has the video of the TC in communications with the helicopter. He tells him to pass behind the plane. He could see both aircraft on the screen.

 

[cr8crshr]

Tragic!!! Still just way too much speculation on the events before and up to the actual impact between both aircraft must come out which will be some time now as is always the case with aviation mishaps and such. As a carrier military aviation crewmember and flight operations specialist supervisor, all agencies right now are scrambling to come together and put the pieces to this all together to report their findings so I am just sitting back and absorbing it all including the nonsense reports that will be floating about. This accident occurred at the second most critical time in a flight event. The first is the Takeoff and then this one...The Landing. Those are the 2 critical phases of flight. To all that lost their lives...RIP...cr8crshr/Bill

 

[khryslerkid]

again the air traffic controller in the tower should have caught it "WAY" earlier !!

It was one minute from the time the controller first made contact with the helicopter, advising them of the plane, till impact. 15 seconds before impact the helicopter was told to pass behind the plane.

 

[Triplegreen500]

New speculation came up during a presser today, that the military crew may have been using night vision. Another potential malfunction layer...

 

[YY1]

Current question is- which plane did PAT25 see and think it was the other aircraft advised by the tower.

Video shows two aircraft besides the helicopter, and logic suggests the crew should have been able to see both.

 

[dadsbee]

Three "experienced" crew on a yearly recurrency flight using night vision goggles! They certainly failed...

 

[cr8crshr]

New speculation came up during a presser today, that the military crew may have been using night vision. Another potential malfunction layer...

I had heard that during last night's coverage of it. And most military flights below 10,00 ft are conducted in a VFR environment with IFR monitoring by ATC in a controlled airspace such as is this area. Highly covered and controlled...cr8crshr/Bill

 

[dfrazz]

I do wonder why the TCAS (collision avoidance system) didn't alert the AA flight unless having the blackhawk fly up into the AA plane is a blind spot? There would have been only seconds though.

Their altitude was below 400 ft and I don't think TCAS alerts below 1000 ft otherwise it may tell you to descend which would put you in the water/terrain.

 

[skicker]

The part that stood out to me in watching the footage and some of the people who have commented is that the plane was on approach with a down ward trajectory while the Helicopter was on a routine course that follows the river...

The instrumentation or computer controls that should have let both the copter and the plane know of each others location evidently are turned off below 1,000 ft...400' is where they supposedly met...

It sounds like its all on the pilots at that time...most likely the copter pilot as he would be in a better piece of equipment to change his course of direction...

One commenter said that all of these types of accidents are due to human error...and not the result of the equipment...

Assuming that to be true why with todays technology would a plotted flight path of a copter ever be allowed to cross at the same elevation as any other type of aircraft???

I'm just a dumb redneck but had that copters flight path at that elevation been closer to the DC side of the bank and not the Virginia side they shouldn't have ever crossed paths at the same elevation...

 

[dfrazz]

Assuming that to be true why with todays technology would a plotted flight path of a copter ever be allowed to cross at the same elevation as any other type of aircraft???

The helicopters from the base are permitted to cross the river approach line. DC airspace is a nightmare to navigate.

 

[skicker]

The helicopters from the base are permitted to cross the river approach line. DC airspace is a nightmare to navigate.

I worked around that area off and on for 20 years before I got out about 8 years ago...

The first video from the earthcam was pretty easy to figure out kind of knowing how everything was laid out...

 

[Triplegreen500]

Assuming that to be true why with todays technology would a plotted flight path of a copter ever be allowed to cross at the same elevation as any other type of aircraft???

The plane had just had its landing runway changed, due to prevailing winds. Not sure how long before the impact, but it was a changed approach.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Let all the souls on board rest easy away from our classical mess. May the remaining family members find solace and openness. A sad day in the world.

 

[Dibbons]

Captain Steeeve explains the tragedy with the actual radio communication:

 

[Richard Cranium]

It's also being reported that the tower was understaffed.

 

[Speedbird]

I've installed TCAS on planes.
I would be surprised if fighting military aircraft have TCAS .
So I checked the Internet.
Commercial Civilian aircraft also have winshear warning systems for landing

Most military helicopters — like the Black Hawk that collided with the aircraft — aren't equipped with TCAS but have transponders that can interact with planes. Here's what we know about the technology and why it might not have preven Wednesday's collision.