Mid Air Collision in DC

[khryslerkid]

I like this guy.

 

[WileE]

Thoughts and prayers for all the families. No matter the cause, or fault. And hope that lessons learned will prevent any future similar occurrence.

 

[chargervert]

Their altitude was below 400 ft and I don't think TCAS alerts below 1000 ft otherwise it may tell you to descend which would put you in the water/terrain.

My wife's 2016 Jeep Cherokee sends an alarm and stops on it's own if an object is too close to it when backing up! You mean to tell me the Jeep has better technology than Helicopters and Commercial Jet Planes?

 

[j-c-c-62]

Curious, would the third person on the helicopter have any responsibility or played any part in this accident?

 

[j-c-c-62]

My wife's 2016 Jeep Cherokee sends an alarm and stops on it's own if an object is too close to it when backing up! You mean to tell me the Jeep has better technology than Helicopters and Commercial Jet Planes?

Better brakes maybe?

 

[Triplegreen500]

My wife's 2016 Jeep Cherokee sends an alarm and stops on it's own if an object is too close to it when backing up! You mean to tell me the Jeep has better technology than Helicopters and Commercial Jet Planes?

Your jeep doesn't have near the closing speed of a Blackhawk helicopter. And 1 or 2 seconds is 1 or 2 seconds, even if proximity alerts did go off.

 

[not so famous bob]

Post #18 has the video of the TC in communications with the helicopter. He tells him to pass behind the plane. He could see both aircraft on the screen.

his screen should have had their elevation on it too, that's his job ....

 

[not so famous bob]

New speculation came up during a presser today, that the military crew may have been using night vision. Another potential malfunction layer...

that's why the atc should have told him to change his altitude immediately !!

 

[not so famous bob]

Your jeep doesn't have near the closing speed of a Blackhawk helicopter. And 1 or 2 seconds is 1 or 2 seconds, even if proximity alerts did go off.

once again the atc should have been watching and told him to change altitude immediately , its his only job to watch and advise in and outgoing flites...

 

[Triplegreen500]

once again the atc should have been watching and told him to change altitude immediately , its his only job to watch and advise in and outgoing flites...

But when one ATC is doing the job of two - normally one ATC for helicopters and one for jets - balls get dropped.

 

[chargervert]

There were only 19 of the 30 Air Traffic Controllers in the tower. That's how understaffed they are running. One Air Traffic Controller was handling the helicopter and the incoming plane,and talking to both aircrafts on two different frequencies. I saw a time lapse of the tower asking the helicopter can you see the plane. That was five seconds before impact. They replied yes. At that time another plane was taking off. It appears that they thought that was the plane that the tower was taking about. Two seconds before impact the tower says go behind the plane. I don't believe that the helicopter ever saw the decending plane coming in from above until it was right in front of them with no time left to react.

 

[cr8crshr]

Curious, would the third person on the helicopter have any responsibility or played any part in this accident?

An extra set of eyes is always a good thing in aviation. However, if the 3rd crewmember is a Flight Mechanic/Engineer, the Engineer is also very busy monitoring gauges and indications related to the mechanics of the aircraft and that it is functioning properly so watching out for traffic can be difficult at times. My personal take on choppers is I do not like nor feel safe in a rotary-winged aircraft. They are usually VFR aircraft that fly at lower altitudes than fixed-winged aircraft so they are not as fully equipped as their big brothers are with instrumentation and TCAS equipment. As more has been coming to light on this, the ATC issue is now turning into the front of it all as to its involvement in causing this crash. Like 2 missed approaches and go-arounds/aborts, in a matter of days last week. Not a good track record at all... cr8crhr/Bill

 

[torredcuda]

I've installed TCAS on planes.
I would be surprised if fighting military aircraft have TCAS .
So I checked the Internet.
Commercial Civilian aircraft also have winshear warning systems for landing

Most military helicopters — like the Black Hawk that collided with the aircraft — aren't equipped with TCAS but have transponders that can interact with planes. Here's what we know about the technology and why it might not have preven Wednesday's collision.

So the Black Hawk may have no TCAS but can "see" the other planes in the vicinity? Why would they even allow a helo to EVER directly cross an active approach slope, that just seems making this accident inevitable and just a matter of time before it happened?

 

[chargervert]

Supposedly two other flights were diverted in the last couple of weeks due to helicopter traffic.

 

[QuickBpBp]

Sad finding out how understaffed they were along with types they were hiring and with all the close calls the last few years it was bound to happen... Clearly a tragedy that was avoidable. I can guarantee competent proper staffing won't be an issue moving forward.

 

[Triplegreen500]

So the Black Hawk may have no TCAS but can "see" the other planes in the vicinity? Why would they even allow a helo to EVER directly cross an active approach slope, that just seems making this accident inevitable and just a matter of time before it happened?

Apparently there's a 200 foot ceiling for helicopters in the area that was violated (collision was around 400 if I recall...)

 

[JackR]

Over Phoenix a couple weeks ago we had 2 commercial jets come w/in 200 feet of each other. The mid air stuff is terrifying.

 

[j-c-c-62]

An extra set of eyes is always a good thing in aviation. However, if the 3rd crewmember is a Flight Mechanic/Engineer, the Engineer is also very busy monitoring gauges and indications related to the mechanics of the aircraft and that it is functioning properly so watching out for traffic can be difficult at times.

But what vantage point might a third person have really, other than straight ahead, and he would be only a casual observer, and interrupting a pilot in flight who has already noted on the radio he has seen the other plane, would seem to me a third person would mostly be a distraction pointing out other aircraft.

 

[torredcuda]

Before Crash, an Alarming Pattern of Near-Misses Between Planes

 

[torredcuda]

Close calls happen way to often IMO and we can`t rely on the TCAS to prevent them all.
‘Stop! Stop!’: Boston-bound flight involved in near-miss on runway