mini starter on 451

[Garys1969RR]

Just picked up a 1965 Belvedere with a (supposedly) rebuillt 451. It has one of the mini starters on it. When I engage the starter it clicks rapidly, and the engine rotates real slowly. It wont even get past each compression stroke without stopping briefly. The battery is mounted in the trunk. It is fully charged. The ground cable gets real warm when trying to start the motor. As does the starter. The ground cable mounts right to the trunk floor. I think part of the problem is adequate amperage/power to the starter. Has anyone had much success using the mini starter? Are there different torque ratings on them? I am tempted to put the original type boat anchor heavy starter on it, as I have had few if any problems with that one. Will post some pics below this post.

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This 451 engine is supposed to be a 9 to 1 C/R motor.

 

[Garys1969RR]

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Finally got some pics to post.

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I don't care for this remote mount oil filter, so am going to remove it and put the filter onto the oil pump.If anyone is interested in this remote filter set up, make me an offer.

 

[bbcharger71]

You'll like the battery in the trunk once you get this "bug out". I moved mine in the trunk and used the wiring diagram from Mad Electrical. You need at least a 1 gauge wire, 2 engine ground straps, and a 1 gauge ground cable mounted in the trunk. It is also vital to used a ford solenoid to disrupt the power supply through the starter cable. It's a nice safety feature. I ran a separate 8 gauge to feed accessories and charge the battery. Mad Electrical has really thought this setup through.

 

[miller]

Ground cable and starter getting warm?

Take a hard look at all your trunk-mounted wiring/cables, all the way to the motor, Gary.

Had a trunk-mounted battery in my 63, for a while...until I developed a short located under the body. Found out the hard way (lol, is there any other way), 65mph down the highway, ALL my wiring caught fire, burning just like a fuse, totally engulfed in white smoke. So bad, had to stick my head out the window, just to get her on the side of the road.
Could only stand there, like a dummy, as every wire under the hood completely fried.

 

[HT413]

Captain obvious here, but seems like a wire that is hot is a wire that is undersized and/or oxidized / poor connections. If that battery and starter are in good shape, seems like the resistance of the circuit is killing amperage to the starter.

I would find out the size of the wire, test the battery and if that all looks ok, do an end to end resistance and voltage drop test on the hot and the ground wires in their current configurations while connected to the car (so you test the voltage drop that the starting circuit really sees). I would also deox every damn connection in that circuit with a salt/vinegar solution then blast with something like carb or brake cleaner (non water based and evaporates completely) and protect with switch lube.

 

[Badvert65]

Check your battery and starter connections. If you only have one cable (positive) running up from the battery, then make very certain the engine to chassis ground is well connected (and a heavy cable as well).
My Fury has a trunk mount battery, I ran two cables (hot and ground) from the battery to the engine. I have used both style starters, currently the 'mini' starter with no issues (since late 80's). My buddy has a similar setup in a 69 Charger but without the full length ground wire. We both have the NHRA mandated cut off switch as we drag raced on a regular basis. Retired to street duty with the setup intact and haven't had issues.
Point is, check your connections thoroughly then have the battery and starter tested.

 

[coloradodave]

All good replies here. As was said, make sure the battery cables are #1 or 1/0. Remove the ground from the trunk floor and drop it down through the floor so that you can attach it to the frame, via one of the bumper bracket bolts. Make sure and clean the mounting point with a wire brush or sandpaper and use a couple of outside tooth lock washers to insure a good ground. Also clean all the terminal ends at the battery and starter as well as from the starter to the relay. Use at least 2 large ground straps between the engine and frame (the flat copper ones, about 1/2" wide are available from Page Auto Parts). Wouldn't hurt to have the battery load tested either and make sure it has a lot of cranking capacity. I use a mini starter on my motor with a trunk mounted set-up without problem.
Also, I use a remote filter because I got tired of the mess. I couldn't mount it on the driver's side because of my A/C compressor so I moved it to the passenger side and mounted it vertically. It's now a piece of cake to change the filter without spilling a drop. Plus, you can prefill the new one. Have fun with your 'new' car.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Got it runnin, cleaned the cable connections real good, and put in a new mini starter. Sounds decent.

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Starter was bad. Now it cranks over good

 

[Meep-Meep]

I was going to say if it wasn't the connections then the starter was bad. Still, I'd make sure you have good grounds and properly sized cable. The longer you go on cable the bigger it needs to be. Or just double up on the standard size stuff.

 

[383man]

Glad you got it fixed. I was going to say to do voltage drop test on it as thats the best way to find the problem. Ron

 

[440ronnie67]

much success on the summit mini starter here. wings over freaky fast. well worth the money plus its about 9lbs lighter.