MY 440 SET UP...WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[jluisfelipe]

Hello friends, I am restoring a 1970 Dodge Charger RT and I would like to share with you my 440 configuration. My goal is big reliable power, so I have searched a lot and everything should work in good armony (may be the carb is a little big), but lately I am doubting if I should have go with a stroker kit for a 512 or similar...
I would appreciate very much if you could give me your opinions and advices.
Engine is going to be dyno tune and rated on these days and I am looking for more than 500 hp (600 would be awesome). Do you think I will get it?
Here´s the list of what I have used to rebuild the heart of the beast:

● Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 60829http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60829
● Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits CSMHP815-300 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp815-300
● The rebuild kit comes with these pistons: Speed-Pro Forged Pistons L2355F30 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2355f30
● Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10230703K http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10230703k
● Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold
● Holley 850CFM Shiny Double Pumper 4bbl carburetor https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-0-4781s/overview/
● FireCore Ignition system
● McLeod RST Street Twin Clutch Kits 6913-05 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-6913-05
● Billet Specialties Tru Trac serpentine system with A/C: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/BSP-14800
● Headers: TTi long tube head ers of 1 and 7/8", chromed and ceramic coated (part number Tti440-178C5)
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/MoparClassics-Headers/440-178/TTi440-178.htm )
● X-pypes: Flowmaster Scavenger X pypes 815933
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/flo-815933
● Tail pipes: TTi 3" tail pipes
http://www.manciniracing.com/tailpipes308.html

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I was told the Mopar M1 440 intake is better. I'm buying the same Federal Mogul kit. Looks like a bitchin kit though..

 

[Mike67]

Looks like you have a fair budget and the first rhing that jumps out are the heads...If I could afford to swap at this stage I would look into the Trickflow 240s for street performance....if wanting to go all out track look at the TF 270s.
TF 240s with TF top end kit made 620hp on a 10.5 motor...
Also for $150 more you could get a lighter piston, less weight, faster rpm

 

[1967coronet440]

Ya since budget doesn’t seem to be an issue I’d consider the trick flow top end kit like mike said, or at least the 240 heads. If you wanted to use the parts you listed above maybe a cam swap as the one you have selected there is a bit small to get your goals.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

If you want an easy reliable 600hp order the stroker kit. Almost silly not too if you have the budget and want the power. Add the TF 240 heads with the right cam and you’ll have torque out the wazoo. Not saying a 440 can’t do the job but, after having a few 500ci motors myself I’m a bit partial to the endless amount of smile they put on my face.

 

[Bill Monk]

I agree with all posts, the cam is probably light for what you are wanting to accomplish and there are better choices than the edlebrock head. That said, if I could propose suggestions it would be to consider a port and polish job. It makes a big difference at the pavement, no matter how strong the rotating assembly you have to get air/fuel in and out of the engine. Also, balancing is often overlooked, crank, rods and pistons should be checked and adjustments made to get as close to full balance as possible. Good luck, can't wait to hear what you decide!

 

[rumblefish360]

I agree with the guys on a few parts.
I will say the Holley intake is very good and can be even better with plenum work and porting and the carb pad adjusted for a Holley is a lot of work but worth some good power.
The M1 mentioned is about equal. But may have a hood clearance issue on your car. It can also benefit from the be same work as th Holley. Ask the board what has cleared for them as well as what air cleaner!
I have also noticed that a big block Mopar can use all the carburetor they can get.

I like the Trick Flow head offerings best. I like there intake, but I don’t know much about how they have dyno tested.

For 600 hp, your going to need a good bit more cam.

Here is an idea that is easy to do. Go to the trick flow web site and find there heads for the MoPars and click on there pdf files. Open up the dyno sheet and take note of the parts used.

There is no shame in a copy cat engine. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery he. You also know what you’re going to get.

 

[m79ded]

Hello friends, I am restoring a 1970 Dodge Charger RT and I would like to share with you my 440 configuration. My goal is big reliable power, so I have searched a lot and everything should work in good armony (may be the carb is a little big), but lately I am doubting if I should have go with a stroker kit for a 512 or similar...
I would appreciate very much if you could give me your opinions and advices.
Engine is going to be dyno tune and rated on these days and I am looking for more than 500 hp (600 would be awesome). Do you think I will get it?
Here´s the list of what I have used to rebuild the heart of the beast:

● Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 60829http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60829
● Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits CSMHP815-300 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp815-300
● The rebuild kit comes with these pistons: Speed-Pro Forged Pistons L2355F30 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2355f30
● Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10230703K http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10230703k
● Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold
● Holley 850CFM Shiny Double Pumper 4bbl carburetor https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-0-4781s/overview/
● FireCore Ignition system
● McLeod RST Street Twin Clutch Kits 6913-05 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-6913-05
● Billet Specialties Tru Trac serpentine system with A/C: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/BSP-14800
● Headers: TTi long tube head ers of 1 and 7/8", chromed and ceramic coated (part number Tti440-178C5)
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/MoparClassics-Headers/440-178/TTi440-178.htm )
● X-pypes: Flowmaster Scavenger X pypes 815933
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/flo-815933
● Tail pipes: TTi 3" tail pipes
http://www.manciniracing.com/tailpipes308.html

Great build. My buddy @ Nick's garage did a similar build with TF240's and a 241 comp cam and got 600 out of it. but vacuum was about 11" I put in a 228 236 cam which is similar to that Lunati and got into the 550 range with cast iron heads. To sum it up in my opinion its a fantastic build and will fry and roast tires on the street. Power will come in very early as well. How does 530lbs sound at about 2800. Look at this video

 

[wyrmrider]

even if you have a crank, if you need to get it ground and the whole assembly balanced at least look at the strokers
too early to pick a cam- nail down the heads first and have the flows hand, compression, quench, etc
Actuall IMHO the TQ is your best carb choice or EFI
did you say what your gears are?

 

[m79ded]

even if you have a crank, if you need to get it ground and the whole assembly balanced at least look at the strokers
too early to pick a cam- nail down the heads first and have the flows hand, compression, quench, etc
Actuall IMHO the TQ is your best carb choice or EFI
did you say what your gears are?

Great to see someone else like the TQ I have one also and runs really great. Got better results and better mileage. You are so correct advising to figure out setup and then go to cam

 

[jluisfelipe]

Guys...first of all let me thank you all your replies and knowledge. I have had Ford, GM and this is now my first mopar and there´s something special in you, the moparians. You always try to help, not to hurt and your comments always add, never substract. I am really gratefull.

Regarding my engine, you must know it has been already taken to the machine shop and it has been completely rebuilt. I trust in Summit people recommendations and all the parts I have commented in my first post are already bought. How you have pointed, I have spent a lot of money...That means I am now in a delicated situation: I probably was wrong with the election of the cam and the heads, but I don´t want to spend more money (obviously). The thing is I have spent too much to get something in the middle range, so what should I do...?
If engine were yours, what would your moves be?
May be the stroker kit and a better cam is the easiest solution...or perhaps I should leave everything how it´s now. After all, it would be a sundays car. I want to build something really good and special, but there´s always a limit...

 

[jluisfelipe]

even if you have a crank, if you need to get it ground and the whole assembly balanced at least look at the strokers
too early to pick a cam- nail down the heads first and have the flows hand, compression, quench, etc
Actuall IMHO the TQ is your best carb choice or EFI
did you say what your gears are?

Car is a manual 4 speeds, DANA 60, 3:54.

 

[Mike67]

Wel since you've already purchased every thing at Summits recommendation theres not really a whole lot left without spending more money...the power that is being left on the table is capped only by the inherent limitations of the components design. the limited ammount of air they can move through your motor.
Send your heads off and have them opened up and flowed, maybe go to a cnc program port, new cam, springs and possibly intake... But working the heads IMHO is the best money spent at this point.,

 

[jluisfelipe]

Wel since you've already purchased every thing at Summits recommendation theres not really a whole lot left without spending more money...the power that is being left on the table is capped only by the inherent limitations of the components design. the limited ammount of air they can move through your motor.
Send your heads off and have them opened up and flowed, maybe go to a cnc program port, new cam, springs and possibly intake... But working the heads IMHO is the best money spent at this point.,

What do you think is the best option: work in the actual heads or sell them and purchase some new ones? If you would go with the the second case, which heads do you think is the best to combine with the rest of components of my set up?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

What do you think is the best option: work in the actual heads or sell them and purchase some new ones? If you would go with the the second case, which heads do you think is the best to combine with the rest of components of my set up?

You’ll spend over a grand having your heads done. I’d either just run the thing as is or sell those heads and upgrade to the 240’s. I don’t know how long ago you purchased your parts but, the guys at summit are not mopar guys generally and they are not engine builders. If they were, they wouldn’t be answering phones.

The engine will run fine as is. It’s basically a stock rebuild with a little better heads and a small cam.

 

[Mike67]

I think the first question to ask is what are you really wanting to do with the car? Sat night cruise ? Street strip? All out track? Reliable power is subjective and inversely proportionate as power increases...
Since you have them ( heads) I would have them opened up... I think it's relatively easy to get the RPMs to flow over 300... sell the cam call one of the vendors and give them all of your specs and what you are wanting to do and have them either recommend a cam or make a custom grind....
Now..that being said I'm not a professional engine builder by any means.... but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night...
There are a lot more knowledgeable guys here that I would trust thier opinion more than mine...@dvw , @Lewot184 ,@IQ52 just to name some of the famous builders here...

 

[jluisfelipe]

You’ll spend over a grand having your heads done. I’d either just run the damn thing as is or sell those heads and upgrade to the 240’s. I don’t know how long ago you purchased your parts but, the guys at summit are not mopar guys generally and they are not engine builders. If they were, they wouldn’t be answering phones.

The engine will run fine as is. It’s basically a stock rebuild with a little better heads and a small cam.

I think I were happier in my ignorance...lol
Let´s imagine engine dyno test and tune is completely dissapointing...What combination do you think is better and more suitable for the rest of the parts I already have: 512 stroker kit (or similar) + cam or 240 heads + cam?
By the way, what cams would you recommend? Thanks again for the help!

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Honestly your going down a very expensive road. You normally build a combo around a specific goal. And chances are you will get several different opinions as we all have our own ideas on combinations. I can throw out parts all day long but bottom line you already spent good money to build what you have. Being a 3.54 gear b body I would be very hesitant to avoid over camming a 440. Granted your still a ways away from that.

Ultimately we need to know what you wanna do with the car. I think the current combo will drive around real nice.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

You may want to check out 69GTX’s thread. They made 590hp out of his 440. Keep in mind that I would hope you upgraded your rod bolts, main fasteners, balanced the short block, proper clearances, and have the proper oiling before upgrading what you have. Like I said, you build a “whole combination”.

 

[Challenger340]

Hello friends, I am restoring a 1970 Dodge Charger RT and I would like to share with you my 440 configuration. My goal is big reliable power, so I have searched a lot and everything should work in good armony (may be the carb is a little big), but lately I am doubting if I should have go with a stroker kit for a 512 or similar...
I would appreciate very much if you could give me your opinions and advices.
Engine is going to be dyno tune and rated on these days and I am looking for more than 500 hp (600 would be awesome). Do you think I will get it?
Here´s the list of what I have used to rebuild the heart of the beast:

● Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 60829http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60829
● Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits CSMHP815-300 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp815-300
● The rebuild kit comes with these pistons: Speed-Pro Forged Pistons L2355F30 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2355f30
● Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10230703K http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10230703k
● Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold
● Holley 850CFM Shiny Double Pumper 4bbl carburetor https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-0-4781s/overview/
● FireCore Ignition system
● McLeod RST Street Twin Clutch Kits 6913-05 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-6913-05
● Billet Specialties Tru Trac serpentine system with A/C: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/BSP-14800
● Headers: TTi long tube head ers of 1 and 7/8", chromed and ceramic coated (part number Tti440-178C5)
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/MoparClassics-Headers/440-178/TTi440-178.htm )
● X-pypes: Flowmaster Scavenger X pypes 815933
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/flo-815933
● Tail pipes: TTi 3" tail pipes
http://www.manciniracing.com/tailpipes308.html

This is a nice solid combination, and with no other work using basically OOTB components should deliver right around 480 to 500 hp, and depending upon final C.R. low 520's to 540 Ft/Lbs. Again, a very nice, solid and reliable motivator for the B-Body.
I would suggest that a somewhat larger Camshaft will increase rpm/output on these OOTB components, nonetheless past that point, without Head Porting and/or a few builder tricks applied during the build, the closer to the 550hp/trq range= labor $$$
at which point ?
There then becomes the "no replacement for displacement" Stroker argument with better Heads versus monies spent for closer to 600hp.

I am NOT knocking the original combo, we've built many, many Street 440's using very similar components, albeit, with slightly larger Hyd Flat Tappet Cams/Ported Stealth's and seen 550hp/565 Trq on a regular basis,
just say'in...
without adding the extra porting/machining/labor costs to your posted 440combo, you may consider spending one way or the other for the stroker/better heads OOTB closer to the 600hp and better trq curve.