My alternator is toast. Recommendations on new one?

[Nacho-RT74]

, but i forgot that even when i hook it all up, itsiall on dedicated lines to the battery.

Don't ask why ammeter and bulkhead burns out later and regret and blame factory installation...

With ammeter on car is INCORRECT to feed ANYTHING from the battery!

Then on a side note, with a good alt and everything correctly hooked up on alt side of the game, your ammeter will be completelly safe. Just needs a bulkhead bypass ( or parallel paths to the existant ones ) with wires throught the firewall and still to the ammeter.

 

[manic_mopar]

Don't ask why ammeter and bulkhead burns out later and regret and blame factory installation...

With ammeter on car is INCORRECT to feed ANYTHING from the battery!

Then on a side note, with a good alt and everything correctly hooked up on alt side of the game, your ammeter will be completelly safe. Just needs a bulkhead bypass ( or parallel paths to the existant ones ) with wires throught the firewall and still to the ammeter.

I was actually hoping you were going to see this thread. Digging around last night, i saw your input on the A body forum i think (or maybe the charger forum) and was curious on your pro ammeter take.
So if i only eliminate the bulkhead connector weakpoint, i can keep the ammeter connected?
Would i still run the new alternator charge line to the starter solenoid post like in the MAD article and then run my new ammeter lines off of the post to the ammeter?

It seems your position on this is supported with the alternate wiring for high output alternators from the service manual.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I didn't invent anything just resurrected what MyMopar made back in the days, but this time posting the REASONS why it works, instead despite everything without a reason, just because is "dangerous". Let's see, we play with gas on an engine. The gas line is just right at a side of the coil. Isn't that DANGEROUS too? But what happens? Everybody pay attention on engine, suspension, brakes and body, but nobody try to understand electricity, being maybe the EASIER and cheaper to understand and work if you get the interest like everybody gets interest on engines.

The main problem comes from Chrysler's engineering department YES... IS TRUE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT! The very next problem is the ppl who plays with wires and electricity like playing with chinesse sticks without pay attention on the risk on make it wrong, like you do tightenning a gas line to the carb.

Why the first problem comes from factory? Because the LACK of power coming out from poor alts at low speed. This make to sucks continuously from batt. Then you revs up the engine and the alt is able to feed the car and recharge the batt again. This back and forth play is what causes problems. Initially the battery SHOULD work just to crank the engine and occasional loads like powered windows, cigar lighter and stuff like that, able to suck lot of power at certain point, BUT the alt should be able to feed everything which is able to suck constant power, like AC or heater blower, wipers, all the lighting system and of course ignition system.

As soon you get an alt able to provide all the juice the car needs for these systems, the ammeter will NEVER get the power coming throught up to the batt or coming out the batt. Also All the loads MUST BE on alt side of the game ( like factory did ).

When you source any accesory from batt WITH AN AMMETER on car, the ammeter will sense load going to batt, like charging BUT PROBABLY is not charging, just the alt ( if is able ) sourcing the added accesory on the other side of the ammeter.

Then of course, everybody still keeps adding accesories on stock wiring...

Will you source your Hemi with the 318 gas line? I don't think so! Mostly sure you will jump out to a 3/8 gas line, specially if thinking on high revs. So if you add electrical accesories, will need to upgrade the lines too... or not?

 

[Nacho-RT74]

A 40 amps ammeter, even would be better if they were "bigger" is usually plenty to a regular car, because a discharged batt will NEVER suck that kind of load for long time. Is chemically imposible with a regular batt get 40 amps being sucked from the charging system. The batt is not a giant sucker. Chemicals takes its time and load to get recharged the cells and water.

Of course this will be true JUST if you have a good alt giving a good average power at any speed and not constant high peaks due the low voltage the regular will sense at low speeds, trying to compensate

Anyway, even is safe and posible to keep working te stock ammeter on the car even with a fully discharged batt, is better on this case get it recharged out of the car. But in case of emergency is posible to do it. You can if you want try to recharge the batt even with lights on to distress the ammeter to, sucking part of the power the alt will give, being the lights out of the ammeter play while engine is running ( not of curse with engine off, where any device will suck frm batt and amm will show discharge )

Remove ammeter, check isolation sheets, and be sure studs are still tight to the ammeTer shunt inside. If ammeter already got stressed for all these years ( due owners and unkowledgement abuse ) there is a chance the studs are loosen from ammeter shunt inside. They are smashed to the shunt, so the metall got stretched and could got loose, causing a overheating problem.


Wiring and terminals... is plenty explained on the post you made mention ( at dodge charger board )

 

[Mike67]

Don't ask why ammeter and bulkhead burns out later and regret and blame factory installation...

With ammeter on car is INCORRECT to feed ANYTHING from the battery!

Its incorrect as a "factory" install??? but its ok to rewire/bypass the bulkhead???
The thing to remember is that the factory design was built to support factory options...Not a larger alt, electric fans, hi powered sound system, electric fuel pump, HID lights ect. ect..
There is nothing wrong with coming directly off a battery with a fused circuit to supply high current devices through a realy other than not seeing the added current at the ammeter or being original to the car.
There is a reason ammeters are no longer installed and there are plenty of horror stories to back it up...

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I won't argue anymore with that. Please read the thread is being mentioned from dodge charger board. Everybody is able to take his own conclusion but read first. I'm a happy owner of a Mopar with bigger output alt on stock ammeter, AC all day long, driver car on a heavy transit city ( tropical country so it rains dogs and cats ) and halogen lamps.... relays correctly sourced from alt side of the game STRAIGHT from ammeter stud ( I have 6 relays on cab side being sourced there )

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Its incorrect as a "factory" install??? but its ok to rewire/bypass the bulkhead???
The thing to remember is that the factory design was built to support factory options...Not a larger alt, electric fans, hi powered sound system, electric fuel pump, HID lights ect. ect..

the factory alt wasn't even able to feed the stock equipment!!! then everybody added bigger batts that will never get fully charged back, so the ammeter will be allways going back and forth.

Factory bypassed the bulkhead from assembly line with alts more than 60 amps! so, if you upgrade the alt, why you will keep the stock bulkhead paths ? I meant, they can still be there if still in good conditions, so run a parallel path to help. If was already burnt out, then bypass it completelly

There is nothing wrong with coming directly off a battery with a fused circuit to supply high current devices through a realy other than not seeing the added current at the ammeter or being original to the car.

DO YOU THINK THE AMMETER WON'T SEE THAT? well... thats not true! the ammeter will read CHARGE trying to feed everything hooked up to the batt post. The only way an ammeter won't see that load UNLESS THE ALT IS NOT ABLE TO SOURCE IT is sourcing from alt side. If alt is not enough, batt will suply that then you'll get DIRCHARGE reading.

the main missconception about the ammeter is everybody thinks is an ALTERNATOR gauge... a myth created by factory. The ammeter is really a BATTERY gauge. It reads what the battery provides or sucks, not what the alt gives.

There is a reason ammeters are no longer installed and there are plenty of horror stories to back it up...

and there is a reason to not get anymore oil gauges, and tachs on half of the cars produced. Sometimes not even voltimeters... everthing just idiot lights... right ?

 

[Nacho-RT74]

sorry, couldn't resist to make some statements

 

[Mike67]

Not sure why you are sounding so pissy????
Not everbody thinks the ammeter is an alternator gauge..that might be your preception..certainly not everybody as you claim.
The alt and battery are a system that work in tandem, the total load will not be shown if in paralell & unless the battery is totally shot. Thats because the battery supplies some of the power.
If it didnt your ammeter would always show the combined electric load/demmand of the system, on a stock system that would probably be some where 20- 30 amps with everything on.
Not sure where you got your info but batteries dont "suck" current, they are a power source... the devices that require power are what determine current demmand.
Sorry I couldnt resist replying....

 

[Nacho-RT74]

So, the battery don't suck power when is discharged and alternator is sourcing the charge back? What do you think is the charge reading on ammeter?

Amperes are not pushed in by the source, are sucked in by the devices, and the batt is a device more when is discharged. Chemicals demand the electrolitic balance back

LOL. I think there is not more to say.

 

[Glenwood]

It is bad electrical practice to connect devices inline with a power source that has the potential to deliver more current that what they were designed for, at least without protecting them with a fusible link, etc. You will most certainly have a fire to deal with, should the circuit draw more current that what the ammeter is capable of handling. Let's not forget that the ammeters are 50 years old +/- and have been subjected to many cycles of current fluctuations during normal use. All it takes is a mild short circuit to drive the current up beyond the ammeter's capability.
Also, I would never size the wire gauge from the alternator based solely on the electrical equipment on the car at the moment. It should always be sized according to the source capacity. At 60A (stock in most cases) a 12awg was fine but borderline. A 10awg might be fine for up to 75A, but not 95A and up imo. You should consider an 8awg at a minimum if upgrading to a 95A alternator.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

A 95 amps alt won't deliver 95 amps if the car parts doesn't demands that load. So the wire gauge must be related also with car demands and not just the alternator.

Probably a 95 amps alt won't give ever that load, being able to keep the car requirements load while iddling the batt won't be discharged ever and the car load demands will be stablish. If your car demands 40-50 amps while working, you can get 1000 amps alt, but alt will just provide 40-50 amps. So, a car ready for 50-60 amps wiring COULD be enough

 

[Mike67]

So, the battery don't suck power when is discharged and alternator is sourcing

Trying to guess at what you meant here...but simply put No....its still the load needing to be served and the need to bring the batery back to its proper state.

A 95 amps alt won't deliver 95 amps if the car parts doesn't demands that load

Although there may never be a demmand of 95a, there is a thing called fault current or short circuit rating which exponetially increases the capable current produced by a fault.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

...

 

[manic_mopar]

It is bad electrical practice to connect devices inline with a power source that has the potential to deliver more current that what they were designed for, at least without protecting them with a fusible link, etc. You will most certainly have a fire to deal with, should the circuit draw more current that what the ammeter is capable of handling. Let's not forget that the ammeters are 50 years old +/- and have been subjected to many cycles of current fluctuations during normal use. All it takes is a mild short circuit to drive the current up beyond the ammeter's capability.
Also, I would never size the wire gauge from the alternator based solely on the electrical equipment on the car at the moment. It should always be sized according to the source capacity. At 60A (stock in most cases) a 12awg was fine but borderline. A 10awg might be fine for up to 75A, but not 95A and up imo. You should consider an 8awg at a minimum if upgrading to a 95A alternator.

Yeah for the main power line from the alternator to the starter solenoid/battery, i'll be going by the alternator mfg recommendation and using the 6AWG wire for the 100a alternator. Then from that post, i'll be running 10AWG wires into the dash to take over the work of the ammeter wires, basically following that MAD article.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Not everbody thinks the ammeter is an alternator gauge..that might be your preception..certainly not everybody as you claim.

Yeap well... wondering why everybody could think that

 

[Nacho-RT74]

One way to proove a high output alternator won't affect on ammeter and will be in fact healthy for the charging system, including in fact the ammeter:

Start up the engine and disconnect the batt. Engine will keep working and ammeter won't read anything. Will be death centered. This means there is no load going throught the ammeter and all the load is just on alt side wiring of the ammeter. If your alt is still able to do it, could even try to turn on lights and ammeter will be still death centered. If alt is not able to source the lights due the load amperage capacity iddling, engine will stall. On this moment, if batt was connected, the batt will source that and would read discharge.

Now, let's make the same keeping the batt and disconecting the alternator ( or disconect regulator, which will be the same effect ). Engine will keep running with batt sourcing EVERYTHING hooked up to the main splice located on alt side of the wiring and Ammeter will read discharge, so the load is going throught. You can also turn on the lights, engine will keep running because the batt has no amperage output limit by the engine speed as far is still charged and ammeter will increase discharge reading. Once you connect the alt/reg back, the batt will begin to suck back the load lost previouslly to get the chemical balance back AS FAR alternator is able to source it, and will get a Charge reading, so load going throught... or maybe you will need to give gas to increase alt speed to be able to recharge the batt, because the lack of power coming out from alt.

We know is not really healthy disconnect batt or alt while running, but is in fact posible to do it just to try this test.

What we need to make to keep healthy the charging system including the ammeter? An alt able to give all the loads required at the minimum alternator speed as posible. This will keep the batt allmost out of the play and the ammeter allong with it.

No load going throught the ammeter ( on Charging or Discharging reading ), no heat there. That's a fact.

And OF COURSE, to keep this correct, NEVER source stuff from batt side, nor batt post or starter relay stud! Why ? because load will be going from alt throught the ammeter like is charging the batt ( with an alt able to do it at iddle or giving gas to increase speed ), but actually is sourcing those accesories. DEFINITELLY NO NEED TO ADD THAT STRESS to the ammeter, aside will get an incorrect reading...charging batt where is really sourcing those extras