It sure does.
Nasty plane crash in S. Korea
- Thread starter Richard Cranium
- Start date
we have come a long way, but Boeing incidents have indeed gone up and quality has been confirmed as decreased in the past few years. Then there was the Boeing quality inspector whistle blower who explained he quit due to them not heeding his inspection repair recommendations and warnings.
Other than Boeing quality and problems with their newer planes, that may not necessarily be the case with this and the other recent landing gear failures on the 737-800. It very well could be Airline maintenance procedure issues. These pilots should not be blamed for this case as they should never have had to deal with landing gear failing to deploy. The touchdown was gentle and textbook, while the location of set down with the wall at the end was not ideal. Air traffic control error? So many things need to be correct for a safe landing - Aircraft quality, proper maintenance, air traffic control, pilot skill and execution, natural and environmental events (bird strikes, weather).
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
No ones blaming the pilots just stating stats and trends of other accidents with that aircraft, pilots perform some amazing, heroic saves as well. Boeings recent issues wouldn`t affect these older models unless they find they go way back as well but so far I haven`t heard that is the case. Obviously we won`t know the whole story until the investigation is completed and it may be that the pilots did the absolute best they could with the situation. Go watch some air disaster videos, it will open to eyes as to all the things that can happen in the cockpit.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
My first impression of the video when first released was visibly and audibly the engine(s) never throttled back, nor did it seem the plane lose any speed in the landing process.
My first thought this was another possible intentional unhinged pilot Flight 370 scenario with a lot less planning. I am certain every pilot in that region knows of the runway hard walls at that airports runway ends AND knows what the end result is of a belly flop landing with wheels up combined with a mid-point touchdown. Ignoring the fact the pilots are the first likely victims to contact that concrete wall.
How could any professional pilot expect a different outcome?
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j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
I don't know, the few wheels up landings I have seen seem to prefer to use the runway and slide to an easy stop. Sometimes they will foam the runway likely for fire prevention which I suppose also lengthens the slide out. Dirt is risky in it would seem to allow a wing/etc to dig in and cartwheel the aircraft and all that entails
This stuff concerns me. I have just about 2 million commercial aircraft passenger miles. I have had 3 incidents over many hundreds of flights
On a Phoenix to Albuquerque flight plane rolled hard right and then out the window could see the AA 737 pilot clearly as they passed in the opposite direction
On a flight from Phoenix to Miami the UAL 757 had a cockpit warning of some kind…we had to assume the crash position and the runway was lined with emergency vehicles when we did land conventionally
On a flight to Hanoi Vietnam, Vietnam Airways flight, a passenger opened the middle exit door after we landed deploying the slide while we were still on roll just after landing. Got to take a bus from the end of the runway to the terminal.
I work with all of the aircraft manufacturers. Airbus and Boeing both have good aircraft designs and Boeing is under extreme FAA review right now, Airbus is not. Boeing replaced all the managing engineers with newly minted MBA’s over the last few years. One FAA issue that has affected us all is FAA Notice 8100.19. I have to have my inspectors formally sign that no one has forced them to write an FAA 8130 airworthiness tag. The 737 max crashes result.
Airbus managing engineers are starting to retire with replacements being of the same background
On a Phoenix to Albuquerque flight plane rolled hard right and then out the window could see the AA 737 pilot clearly as they passed in the opposite direction
On a flight from Phoenix to Miami the UAL 757 had a cockpit warning of some kind…we had to assume the crash position and the runway was lined with emergency vehicles when we did land conventionally
On a flight to Hanoi Vietnam, Vietnam Airways flight, a passenger opened the middle exit door after we landed deploying the slide while we were still on roll just after landing. Got to take a bus from the end of the runway to the terminal.
I work with all of the aircraft manufacturers. Airbus and Boeing both have good aircraft designs and Boeing is under extreme FAA review right now, Airbus is not. Boeing replaced all the managing engineers with newly minted MBA’s over the last few years. One FAA issue that has affected us all is FAA Notice 8100.19. I have to have my inspectors formally sign that no one has forced them to write an FAA 8130 airworthiness tag. The 737 max crashes result.
Airbus managing engineers are starting to retire with replacements being of the same background
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
Don't take this wrong, but with millions of miles under your belt, I say you are sitting pretty.
What might concern us both is what we don't know that happened, like what actually precipitated the crash position landing?
My most notable troublesome flight was early 80's out of Melbourne down under. There was an unexplained delay before departure.
We landed in NZ to top off? and for reasons unexplained, we sat again at the gate 2hrs additional before departing for LA.
That delay means we missed our connection to Mia.
After arriving in LA, we had to wait another 6 hrs to get a new Flight to Miami.
Our group again boarded and sat at the gate 2 hrs past scheduled departure.
At that point It was clear we were on the same plane from Melbourne.
We finally took off.
An hour into the flight to Miami, the new pilot came on the PA and informed us they were not able retract the flaps?, and if they could not it would require multiple fuel stops to Miami, so we were returning to LA, which we did.
Upon landing, it was discovered there was no open available gates to allow us to deboard, so we sat on the tarmac for 2 more hours, and again missing the next possible alternate flights to Miami.
6 hours later we were back on another plane headed to Miami.
It was nearly a 36 hour trip.
What might concern us both is what we don't know that happened, like what actually precipitated the crash position landing?
My most notable troublesome flight was early 80's out of Melbourne down under. There was an unexplained delay before departure.
We landed in NZ to top off? and for reasons unexplained, we sat again at the gate 2hrs additional before departing for LA.
That delay means we missed our connection to Mia.
After arriving in LA, we had to wait another 6 hrs to get a new Flight to Miami.
Our group again boarded and sat at the gate 2 hrs past scheduled departure.
At that point It was clear we were on the same plane from Melbourne.
We finally took off.
An hour into the flight to Miami, the new pilot came on the PA and informed us they were not able retract the flaps?, and if they could not it would require multiple fuel stops to Miami, so we were returning to LA, which we did.
Upon landing, it was discovered there was no open available gates to allow us to deboard, so we sat on the tarmac for 2 more hours, and again missing the next possible alternate flights to Miami.
6 hours later we were back on another plane headed to Miami.
It was nearly a 36 hour trip.
Don't take this wrong, but with millions of miles under your belt, I say you are sitting pretty.
What might concern us both is what we don't know that happened, like what actually precipitated the crash position landing?
My most notable troublesome flight was early 80's out of Melbourne down under. There was an unexplained delay before departure.
We landed in NZ to top off? and for reasons unexplained, we sat again at the gate 2hrs additional before departing for LA.
That delay means we missed our connection to Mia.
After arriving in LA, we had to wait another 6 hrs to get a new Flight to Miami.
Our group again boarded and sat at the gate 2 hrs past scheduled departure.
At that point It was clear we were on the same plane from Melbourne.
We finally took off.
An hour into the flight to Miami, the new pilot came on the PA and informed us they were not able retract the flaps?, and if they could not it would require multiple fuel stops to Miami, so we were returning to LA, which we did.
Upon landing, it was discovered there was no open available gates to allow us to deboard, so we sat on the tarmac for 2 more hours, and again missing the next possible alternate flights to Miami.
6 hours later we were back on another plane headed to Miami.
It was nearly a 36 hour trip.
I have had a lot of crazy stuff happen over the years but only a few real concerns. Here is a UAL 747 flight half way to Shanghai when the ceiling started leaking bad over the
Pacific. The flight attendants tried their best but….
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
I`ve only been on a few airplane trips from Boston - a twin prop to Long Island back in the `80`s, vacations to Aruba, to Orlando (Disney), and Tennessee, I also did one ride in a helicopter in and out of a Nascar race at Loudon. I`ve never liked or felt safe any time I am in the air as for me knowing they are mechanical objects made and flown by humans means they can and will have issues. And yes - I understand air travel is statistically safer then driving a vehicle but it`s the being 5-6+ miles in the air when something happens that bothers me as there is 100% chance of you coming back down but you just don`t know how that will happen.
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
Makes no sense, why not just nose dive the plane into the water or ground, was the bird strike just a lucky coincidence to do a go around? Not sure why the recorders quit working but I doubt the crash was intentional.
Those recorders are above the ceiling in the aft cabin and the only way they lose power is if something cuts the wiring, or the breakers are pulled in the cockpit. Things are starting to add up that this may not have been an accident.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
Suicide never makes sense. The point might be to hide the suicide and if successful that is their final win? What sense was there in the missing flight 370?
The bird strike might have been a final straw and as you designate, "lucky coincidence". I've seen little advance planning in this incident that suggests suicide like 370 experienced, I also suspect if evidence points to suicide the authorities have a financial motivation to suppress that possibility, as there is in reality no way to prevent copycat acts in the future, and the flying public would not like to hear that. Nothing should be excluded until proven.
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
I agree nothing should be excluded but we more info before coming to any conclusions or even theories. I am not sure how South Korea is in regards to trying to keep things from the public but hopefully the NTSB has enough credibility and safe guards in place to tell us the true cause(s).
The way this crash happened I doubt there will be visible evidence to show what happened. The recorders will show anything out of ordinary prior to loss of power but that's all.
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
It will be tough without the recorders but the investigation teams are incredibly good at finding causes 99% of the time.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
The NSTB has no authority in this incident, they are merely an invited guest investigator that likely is bound by non-disclosure agreements, as the financial liability here is huge.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
Now the task will be two-fold, what caused the crash and why did both recorders stop 4 mins prior to the final crash.
That will be a tall order IMO.
torredcuda
Well-Known Member
The recorders now have battery back up but this being an older model didn`t have them.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
So that begs the question, is that something a pilot/co-pilot would know?
I assume they would.
I assume they would.
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