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Need help with my 440 motor

jimm69

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I have a 69 Roadrunner that I had a nice 440 built for. I have had nothing but problems with this and will save you all the details. I finally have the motor where it is running well, but it sounds like a diesel motor running. It runs well and has plenty of power but just doesnt sound right. The block is a 1978 motor home block with a stroker crank. It is a pretty mild motor using stock valve train. It has great oil pressure as it is 40-60 at an idle and 80+ while driving. I have looked at a few obvious things that I was told to check in that I pulled the valve covers and checked for excessive wear on the rocker arms and rocker shaft. didnt see anything there. even swapped the carb and the noise remains. Anyone have any ideas?
 
What alls been done? Without knowing the details I'd guess it's Timing, cam, compression or a combination of them?
 
Kinda like saying, "My wife is growling at me. What do you think is wrong?" Maybe you just need earplugs?

Just a wee bit more information is required.
 
Perhaps a very bad case of detonation? Try running it at 2000 RPM or so while sticking one of the vacuum lines from the base of the carb in a glass of water. That'll clean the combustion chambers nicely. It solved my dieseling (run on) problem with one application.
 
What alls been done? Without knowing the details I'd guess it's Timing, cam, compression or a combination of them?
what information can I give you on what has been done?
 
Tell us a little about the build? If possible a video may be worth a million words. Could you explain the sound it's making better? I'm not sure what you mean by it sounding like a diesel.
 
Is this still a cast crank engine? If it is have the shaft checked for casting flaws.
 
Full details of the build needed and list of parts used.
 
Could be a case of big cam and low compression - total mis-match of components is the likely culprit here.
 
Could be a case of big cam and low compression - total mis-match of components is the likely culprit here.
The crank is an eagle stroker crank. The cam is a comp cams part number 21-306-4 (470/470 lift). unfortunately i do not have any other info on this as the builder has died and all I have is his receipt but no part numbers.

I will see if I can get my wife to take a video on her phone but not sure how to attach it here. If you can either send me an email to send it to or tell me how to attach it, I can send it to you. Only way I can describe it is that it sounds exactly like a diesel motor....either a duramax or a powerstroke. the sound does not sound like it is coming from valve covers but more like under the intake.
 
Its pretty easy to pop the valve covers off and check for bent pushrods. Start with the easy stuff and go from there. Be sure to check your total timing advance. Should be in the 36-38 btdc ballpark. That's about 2-1/4" from the notch cut on your stock harmonic balancer. You can use a tape measure and sharpie pen to mark it( no need to buy timing tape).
 
I did check the pushrods and they all look fine. I took them all out and rolled them across the table to check them. also looked at the rocker shaft for excess wear and didnt see anything. timing is good. in fact, i kept giving a little more advance at a time till i got a ping then backed it off some.
 
Need more information if possible... Do some checks write them down to emilmate possible causes....
Does the engine make this noise only under load? does the noise lessen with the increase of RMP? or decrease . Is it worst at cold temperature?
I had a problem like that on a 440...turned out to be the fuel pump pushrod was worn down.. Are you sure its not an exhaust leak at the manifold? Check timing cover for noise..maybe oil slinger....

I hope this noise turns out to be something simple and inexpensive to fix.
 
Need more information if possible... Do some checks write them down to emilmate possible causes....
Does the engine make this noise only under load? does the noise lessen with the increase of RMP? or decrease . Is it worst at cold temperature?
I had a problem like that on a 440...turned out to be the fuel pump pushrod was worn down.. Are you sure its not an exhaust leak at the manifold? Check timing cover for noise..maybe oil slinger....

I hope this noise turns out to be something simple and inexpensive to fix.
the engine makes the noise all the time (both free and under load). I think it does lessen with increase of RPM. it at least is not as noticeable anyway. It does seem that it is louder when cold and is a lot quieter when warmed up. I do not believe i have any exhaust leaks. the noise sounds to me like it is coming from the center of the motor under the intake.....but I am not real good at pinpointing that. Not real sure how to check timing cover noise as I can not really get my head down there, but like i said, sounds like sound is coming from center of motor. when you had the fuel pump push rod issue, did you have any performance issues like starving for fuel?

I have tried to eliminate the obvious things and I have had a lot of opinions but so far none have panned out. Here are a couple things I have been told but not real sure how to check them without pulling the motor. One person told me it may be crank walk but I seem to have really good oil pressure and if the bearings were worn, I think oil pressure would be suffering. Also told that it could be piston slap. Not sure how to diagnose that. Also told it could be the rocker shafts worn but I pulled them out and do not see any excess wear plus rocker arms do not seem to be loose. Also told it could be timing chain a tooth off but car seems to run too good to be that. Also told it could be a bad power valve in the carb, but swapped carbs and no change. I am open to any ideas as I just do not know what I am doing. I know how to change parts but not build a whole motor.
 
Is there a chance your heads or block was milled excessively causing your valve train to be misaligned? Assuming you're using hydraulic lifters with non adjustable rocker arms, how much preload are you putting on the lifters when you tighten down the rocker rail?
 
Is there a chance your heads or block was milled excessively causing your valve train to be misaligned? Assuming you're using hydraulic lifters with non adjustable rocker arms, how much preload are you putting on the lifters when you tighten down the rocker rail?
well, unfortunately, I do not know how much the heads and block were milled. the builder died about a year ago so I can not ask him. as for preload, i am not sure exactly what you mean. basically, i put the rocker rail on and lined up the pushrods and tightened the rail down until the pushrods were secure then torqued to specifications. did i do something wrong?
 
Anything can be fixed if you throw enough money at it! Try getting a long screw driver place the metal end on suspect areas of the engine with it running. Place the plastic end against your head just in front of your ear. Works better with ear plugs in. The noise will be louder when you get closer to the source.
 
The lifters have I'm guessing here, .120" distance of travel. With the cup in the center of the lifter fully extended there is zero preload. When you install the pushrods and rocker rail, then tighten down some of this slack is taken up. The distance from a fully extended center cup to where you compress it to when all put together is your preload. Another guess here, is at a minimum you would want say.020" when it's all together. Hughes cams suggested .080" on one of my set ups. Even with the lifter on the base circle of the cam there should be some slight pressure against the rocker arm and valves. If the rocker arms ar sloppy then there is an issue. On the flip side if they never get some slight slack( slide side to side) the rocker shafts need to be shimmed.
This could be caused either way by an excessively thick head gasket or milling too much from the block or heads.
 
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Anything can be fixed if you throw enough money at it! Try getting a long screw driver place the metal end on suspect areas of the engine with it running. Place the plastic end against your head just in front of your ear. Works better with ear plugs in. The noise will be louder when you get closer to the source.
yes, did a compression check. all cylinders between 165 and 191.

throwing money is what this car has been all about. had first motor by a shop called compuflow in medina, oh because he was supposed to be well know in mopar world. spent about 7k. put 80 easy miles on the car and motor blew up. valve busted and smashed the piston and destroyed the block. another guy took what he could salvage and put parts into another block. put that motor in car and immediately, head gasket let go so i took heads off and had them milled. they took about 4.5 thousands off. then had a miss that i just couldnt find. did compression test and found a dead cylinder. took head off and found bent valve. no immediate contact marks on piston so my only conclusion is that that vent valve was missed when motor was rebuild after it blew up. now, it runs great but noisy.

do you think i did something wrong when installing rocker rail?
 
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