Oh, here we go again

[VANDAN]

Just some info for all who are retired, make sure you notify your insurance carrier that you retired, and no longer commute daily. We saw a decent decline in our premium's when we became aware of the discount...

 

[cr8crshr]

Actually, no, at least on the first part of the statement.
Insurance rates are going up due to several factors, but as far as auto insurance goes, the increases may be rightly laid at the feet of one group - lawyers. [of course lawyers are aided and abetted by government - which is made up majoritively of lawyers...] Costs go up linearly with regulations and lawsuits.
Another factor is the preponderance of uninsured running around, not to mention exponential rise in complication of vehicles and attendant repair costs. Both are a governmental failing.
Insurers do NOT make money on auto insurance; any loss ratio of 110% or below on car insurance is considered a 'good' year. Auto insurance is a gateway into property insurance which usually makes a few percentage points in most non-coastal areas and then into Life Insurance which is where the big bux are.
Yes, progressive and the Big Farm should be avoided like the plague due solely to their extreme left bias and funding of anti -anything -thats - right causes as well as their stated anti , "Heritage American' shall we say, corporate policies.
Yes, one should shop rates every 2 or 3 years as many companies will give a slight discount for new policies. However...! It is more important to shop coverage - make sure you are comparing apples to apples and make sure you have everything covered that you want. As far as auto insurance goes, I would highly recommend having PLENTY of UM [ Un or Under insured motorists]; the 'people' driving around with no coverage also cause a majority of accidents and can ruin you in a nanosecond.
And yes, its only going to get worse as the economy implodes, costs go thru the ceiling and the ghetto lottery continues on. An industry publication recently noted that personal lines insurance premiums are expected to increase approximately 23% in the coming year - and that was forecast early THIS year. We're seeing it and next year will most likely be worse assuming things continue on somewhat 'normally' , and I use that term advisedly as there has not been any 'normal' progression in this society for many a moon...
[no, I am not an insurance agent - i just happen to be well acquainted with the industry and facts pertaining to it regrettably]

As a former independent insurance Agent/Broker, I can relate to what you have shared. It is all a fact that this is how they operate. It's funny that one pays for the insurance in hopes of having help and support should the unthinkable occur. Yet, if no claims arise, the money will go into the coffers of the companies. Pure profit!!! Yet when claims do happen, if they overlap into the premium trusts that are required by law to maintain, then the rates go up to re-fill the trusts. Technically the companies cannot use that as it must be held in trust for use by the companies when claims arise, and some operational costs. I have often wondered if these insurance companies still rely on "experience modification tables" to compute their "loss rations" and if lower than expected, then a return of unused premiums to the insureds. Some companies do so such as fraternal ones, while most are all mutual companies, so all the insureds must share equally in both premium increases and overall costs. I admit it doesn't seem fair, but it is how the industry has been set up, and really the only way around it is to "self insure" which most of us are sadly unable to do...cr8crshr/Bill

 

[cr8crshr]

Just some info for all who are retired, make sure you notify your insurance carrier that you retired, and no longer commute daily. We saw a decent decline in our premium's when we became aware of the discount...

Agreed but still, the insurance companies try and force the usage of the vehicle and mileage accrued as most today either retired or still working, do accumulate a good amount of mileage driven daily as they assume that the exposure is still as great or greater. I have had an insurance company flatly state and deny my mileage usage as impossible because everyone drives a lot and all the time. Even after showing mileage usage from the last 6-month renewal to the new renewal, they still claimed that that was impossible. I had them send me a mileage adapter to plug into my OBD II to record my mileage, they finally realized that even us retired drivers are driving way less than they assumed. Like pulling teeth out of a Lion!!! cr8crshr/Bill

 

[Cranky]

I once saw a news story about the hardship this woman was going through. She said with a straight face, I've got bills and kids, do you think I can afford car insurance, I think not she said......Ok!!

How many tats and piercings did she have??? The ones that complain the most usually have the most tats etc.

 

[Hey-O]

How many tats and piercings did she have??? The ones that complain the most usually have the most tats etc.

She did have a few hundred dollars worth of tattoos, but, you obviously don't get it. Tattoos are forever and insurance is only good for a year at best!!! LOL

 

[Cranky]

Agreed but still, the insurance companies try and force the usage of the vehicle and mileage accrued as most today either retired or still working, do accumulate a good amount of mileage driven daily as they assume that the exposure is still as great or greater. I have had an insurance company flatly state and deny my mileage usage as impossible because everyone drives a lot and all the time. Even after showing mileage usage from the last 6-month renewal to the new renewal, they still claimed that that was impossible. I had them send me a mileage adapter to plug into my OBD II to record my mileage, they finally realized that even us retired drivers are driving way less than they assumed. Like pulling teeth out of a Lion!!! cr8crshr/Bill

I retired in 06 and even though my job was only 15 miles away, I drive WAY less now but here lately, I'm doing about 20 miles a day.

 

[Cranky]

She did have a few hundred dollars worth of tattoos, but, you obviously don't get it. Tattoos are forever and insurance is only good for a year at best!!! LOL

 

[not so famous bob]

Actually, no, at least on the first part of the statement.
Insurance rates are going up due to several factors, but as far as auto insurance goes, the increases may be rightly laid at the feet of one group - lawyers. [of course lawyers are aided and abetted by government - which is made up majoritively of lawyers...] Costs go up linearly with regulations and lawsuits.
Another factor is the preponderance of uninsured running around, not to mention exponential rise in complication of vehicles and attendant repair costs. Both are a governmental failing.
Insurers do NOT make money on auto insurance; any loss ratio of 110% or below on car insurance is considered a 'good' year. Auto insurance is a gateway into property insurance which usually makes a few percentage points in most non-coastal areas and then into Life Insurance which is where the big bux are.
Yes, progressive and the Big Farm should be avoided like the plague due solely to their extreme left bias and funding of anti -anything -thats - right causes as well as their stated anti , "Heritage American' shall we say, corporate policies.
Yes, one should shop rates every 2 or 3 years as many companies will give a slight discount for new policies. However...! It is more important to shop coverage - make sure you are comparing apples to apples and make sure you have everything covered that you want. As far as auto insurance goes, I would highly recommend having PLENTY of UM [ Un or Under insured motorists]; the 'people' driving around with no coverage also cause a majority of accidents and can ruin you in a nanosecond.
And yes, its only going to get worse as the economy implodes, costs go thru the ceiling and the ghetto lottery continues on. An industry publication recently noted that personal lines insurance premiums are expected to increase approximately 23% in the coming year - and that was forecast early THIS year. We're seeing it and next year will most likely be worse assuming things continue on somewhat 'normally' , and I use that term advisedly as there has not been any 'normal' progression in this society for many a moon...
[no, I am not an insurance agent - i just happen to be well acquainted with the industry and facts pertaining to it regrettably]

I agree with most everything you said , BUT , they are making money on all kinds of ins. , or they would not be in business . their greed for it is why it keeps going up , they are going to keep their profit margins up..
How many people pay ins. over their lifetime and never use it ??
i`ve paid more in than I`ve used or collected on any of my cars / toys !!!

 

[Sam69sat]

Just got my new insurance billing notice this morning. They're jacking it up 25% from 6 months ago. I drive a 30 year old beater as my daily. No tickets, no accidents, good credit, etc, etc. It's increased over 30% in 2 years. But inflation is 3 percent, right??

 

[guy gadbois]

I agree with most everything you said , BUT , they are making money on all kinds of ins. , or they would not be in business . their greed for it is why it keeps going up , they are going to keep their profit margins up..
How many people pay ins. over their lifetime and never use it ??
i`ve paid more in than I`ve used or collected on any of my cars / toys !!!

Must disagree; no mainline insurer makes anything on auto insurance. ALL of their loss ratios are in excess of 100%. The only money 'made' on auto is in the form of short term investment of premiums as someone has already noted. No money is made off of premiums themselves in the long term. This is documentable fact.
Outside forces as explained cause the rise of prices, just like outside forces are causing groceries to go thru the ceiling. 'Fault' can really only be laid at the foot of government and those who actually control it once you understand the marketplace and what is behind inflation and rising costs due to [more] governmental action.

And yes, if there were not a majority of us paying in more than we collect throughout our lifetimes, insurers would go broke. This is the 'risk' we take, but man... if a tornado levels your house or some scumbag steals or damages your car etc, bet youre glad you have the coverage!

 

[Sam69sat]

Surprise! The fraud is committed by the insurance companies.

 

[Cranky]

Just got my new insurance billing notice this morning. They're jacking it up 25% from 6 months ago. I drive a 30 year old beater as my daily. No tickets, no accidents, good credit, etc, etc. It's increased over 30% in 2 years. But inflation is 3 percent, right??

Same thing with me....my newest vehicle is a 97 and don't think it got 500 miles put on it in the past year. The one I drove back and forth to work the most is a 95 and it only has 106500 on it and I've been driving it since 98. Dad put the first 25k miles on it.

 

[guy gadbois]

Surprise! The fraud is committed by the insurance companies.



View attachment 1736674

Of course, this guy has no actual knowledge of policy limitations and coverages, he just wants hits on youtube.
Are there bad adjusters and bad companies? Sure. But remember, the insurance industry is heavily regulated and audited, so the outrageous numbers he shows are obviously not the whole story.
As an example... what coverages does the homeowner have? 3 years ago, my next door neighbour set his hou...I mean had a fire at his home. Company came out, looked at the house, wrote an estimate. Long story short is that yes, they paid him about half what it was gonna cost to rebuild. He came over bitching and I told him to hold it right there...and asked several pertinent questions. Seems that he didnt buy replacement cost insurance, had grossly undervalued his dwelling to get a cheap rate and didnt purchase inflation protection. Naturally this was right after January 2021 when costs went up over 25% over night... His insurer paid everything they owed plus a little from what I could see.
Florida is a somewhat unique example also due to the topography and weather. Mister youtuber doesnt bother to say what the damages are, nor what the coverage was in place at the time of loss. There may well be 250k worth of damage, but if most of it was from storm surge, the home insurer doesnt cover that, so their payout would be significantly less. Say that the homeowner lost a bunch of jewelry for example; they have the claim, but the std policy only covers up to 1500 [last i looked years ago] without a rider. Do they have 'sump pump' coverage? That can get expensive if not.
The list can go on.
It comes down to most people are gonna believe what they want to believe, but the facts are that no insurer would 'get away' with the raw numbers in this video even if they wanted to. Theres more to the story. And those that might try to pull these things outside of contract obligations will not be around long; there are metric tonnes of lawyers circling around always looking for the least bit of 'bad faith' to sue for and just as many juries willing to find it.

 

[Hey-O]

Of course, this guy has no actual knowledge of policy limitations and coverages, he just wants hits on youtube.
Are there bad adjusters and bad companies? Sure. But remember, the insurance industry is heavily regulated and audited, so the outrageous numbers he shows are obviously not the whole story.
As an example... what coverages does the homeowner have? 3 years ago, my next door neighbour set his hou...I mean had a fire at his home. Company came out, looked at the house, wrote an estimate. Long story short is that yes, they paid him about half what it was gonna cost to rebuild. He came over bitching and I told him to hold it right there...and asked several pertinent questions. Seems that he didnt buy replacement cost insurance, had grossly undervalued his dwelling to get a cheap rate and didnt purchase inflation protection. Naturally this was right after January 2021 when costs went up over 25% over night... His insurer paid everything they owed plus a little from what I could see.
Florida is a somewhat unique example also due to the topography and weather. Mister youtuber doesnt bother to say what the damages are, nor what the coverage was in place at the time of loss. There may well be 250k worth of damage, but if most of it was from storm surge, the home insurer doesnt cover that, so their payout would be significantly less. Say that the homeowner lost a bunch of jewelry for example; they have the claim, but the std policy only covers up to 1500 [last i looked years ago] without a rider. Do they have 'sump pump' coverage? That can get expensive if not.
The list can go on.
It comes down to most people are gonna believe what they want to believe, but the facts are that no insurer would 'get away' with the raw numbers in this video even if they wanted to. Theres more to the story. And those that might try to pull these things outside of contract obligations will not be around long; there are metric tonnes of lawyers circling around always looking for the least bit of 'bad faith' to sue for and just as many juries willing to find it.

It took awhile, but now we finally got down to the bottom line. Insurance can be like buying a t shirt. Walmart sells t shirts with a tread count of next to nothing, for cheap. Hold it up to the light and it's like looking through a screen door. Yes, it's a t shirt, barely. If you bought a walmart t shirt, you'd probably get about as much coverage as a stripped down policy.............. more window, than coverage. Pick your poison, and right now, all of it's poison and I'm not talking t shirts.

I'll guarantee you that more people try to rip off insurance companies, verses the other way around.

 

[guy gadbois]

^^^ good analogy!

 

[not so famous bob]

Must disagree; no mainline insurer makes anything on auto insurance. ALL of their loss ratios are in excess of 100%. The only money 'made' on auto is in the form of short term investment of premiums as someone has already noted. No money is made off of premiums themselves in the long term. This is documentable fact.
Outside forces as explained cause the rise of prices, just like outside forces are causing groceries to go thru the ceiling. 'Fault' can really only be laid at the foot of government and those who actually control it once you understand the marketplace and what is behind inflation and rising costs due to [more] governmental action.

And yes, if there were not a majority of us paying in more than we collect throughout our lifetimes, insurers would go broke. This is the 'risk' we take, but man... if a tornado levels your house or some scumbag steals or damages your car etc, bet youre glad you have the coverage!

B.S. , if their losing money on car ins. , why/how do they keep advertising on t.v. ? <Very expensive ! Also donating all kinds of money in their advertisements to diff. organizations !!!
You or anybody else wont make me think car ins. is a losing deal for the ins. companies .
All the storm damage could be another story but they raise premiums nation wide for every disaster regardless of where its at ..

 

[Sam69sat]

They ought to be giving home owners rate cuts since they've been cutting home owners in Florida, California, and probably other places they say are prone to disasters. Imagine paying home owners insurance your entire life and then you get a letter form the insurance company saying "bye bye but thanks for 30 years of premiums you god damned sap!" There's a reason people strongly dislike insurance companies. No offense to insurance agents. It's not personal. Also, when auto insurance is LEGALLY MANDATORY, companies shouldn't be able to raise rates 25% in 6 months. There should be a yearly cap on the percentage they can jack those rates.

 

[demonram]

It took awhile, but now we finally got down to the bottom line. Insurance can be like buying a t shirt. Walmart sells t shirts with a tread count of next to nothing, for cheap. Hold it up to the light and it's like looking through a screen door. Yes, it's a t shirt, barely. If you bought a walmart t shirt, you'd probably get about as much coverage as a stripped down policy.............. more window, than coverage. Pick your poison, and right now, all of it's poison and I'm not talking t shirts.

I'll guarantee you that more people try to rip off insurance companies, verses the other way around.

You sir are absolutely correct. My most recent experience with insurance on a job was last November. A customer whose home we remodeled right after he bought it 3 1/2 years ago lives in Washington state. He rents the house out as an Airbnb throughout most of the year. It flooded from a bidet seat with a 1/4” supply line, he installed in the small bathroom. It was discovered by a guy who was checking it out to rent. The man shut the water main off. Long story short, he called me after his insurance sent a remediation company out, to start there thing. They wanted $11,000 to do it, the insurance would only pay 5 grand towards it. I checked it out and said I’ll do it for the 5. Took 2 days with 2 men to cut out the wet drywall etc. renting two large dehumidifier’s and putting fans in place and treating for mold. Then we got the job to redo it, that was $22,000. I was $500 over the insurance companies estimate and Louis could choose whoever he wanted. The money I saved him, just from the clean up, easily paid the deductible. Now we’re back, doing 2 bathrooms, and part of that is paid for by the savings from the original $6,000 we saved him. The insurance was great, the remediation company would have ripped him off.

 

[guy gadbois]

B.S. , if their losing money on car ins. , why/how do they keep advertising on t.v. ? <Very expensive ! Also donating all kinds of money in their advertisements to diff. organizations !!!
You or anybody else wont make me think car ins. is a losing deal for the ins. companies .
All the storm damage could be another story but they raise premiums nation wide for every disaster regardless of where its at ..

Like I said, people gonna believe what they want to believe, but the loss of money on car insurance is documentable. The profit comes from short term investment, property insurance and life insurance for mainline carriers. For mainline carriers, auto insurance is a gateway to more profitable business. It is also their biggest 'cost' drain due to the personnel required which is simply a function of volume.
Advertising is an expense, just like salaries for employees and claims payment. One can argue its value, but without it, would you have heard of any carriers outside of maybe the big 3? I probably wouldnt have. How much advertising is directly related to coverage area - most insurers are regional rather than national - and volume of business. National companies with high volume advertise nationally and go for lower margins at higher volume. Same is true for any company/industry.
Donations to organisations is open to discussion; that is the reason I would go without before using Progressive for example...
Specialty carriers like Hagerty, American collectors, Grundy etc do indeed profit from autos, PLUS the rates are way lower, often with more expensive cars; why is that? Strict underwriting and the fact that our 'fun cars' are not out in the 9 to 5 with every celphone gabbing moron, distracted soccer moms and illegals cruising around. Exposure to risk is key. Plus, mainline carriers are, quite frankly , not 'allowed' to use strict underwriting guidelines as those small special interest companies. Once again, government is at the base of the problem. Mainline carriers are even forced to accept completely unacceptable risks by the state - its called "assigned risk", and the company hasta take them if they want to do business in the state where they are located. And those people cause an inordinately high percentage of losses, effecting rates for everyone.
One can argue the regional vs national aspect of rates, but, once again, government says that you can't 'discriminate' against certain areas; its called 'redlining' sometimes, and companies have to take bad risk areas and people if they want to do business. This is one reason that lots of companies do not write in every state - they have decided that its more headache and cost than any upside to deal with it in those areas. However, massive disasters in one area do indeed translate into higher premiums country-wide due to a thing called 're-insurance'. Basically, the insurers 'insure' themselves against catastrophic losses over X amount; when you have major events like hurricanes, massive wildfires, mudslides etc, it hits that reinsurance and then 'reinsurance' premiums go up for everyone. The increase is passed along by the main carrier. Is it 'fair' that I have to essentially subsidise Florida or California? probably not, but life aint always fair.
And besides , when did making a profit become a sin?

Its a tough question tho.

 

[Hey-O]

Also, when auto insurance is LEGALLY MANDATORY, companies shouldn't be able to raise rates 25% in 6 months. There should be a yearly cap on the percentage they can jack those rates.

A truck cost 100 thousand, how much do you think insurance should cost to cover it, especially as they go up daily along with repair cost. I hate insurance companies, but I also hate the cost of a 100 thousand dollar truck. Imagine hitting two of them in one accident.