• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

One of a kind Automobile......... 1906 Adams-Farwell

toolmanmike said:
And then there's Harley Davidson. 2 cylinders from a radial.
Click to expand...

From what I read the radial engines are always odd number cylinders..... like 3 5 7 9 etcetera cylinders.

Harley as you state is a 2 cylinder configuration but it still isn't a odd number engine with 2 cylinders.

I dont think it would be considered a radial engine.

not familuar with Harley's.
 
Last edited:
5wndwcpe said:
Unless it was a double stack.
Click to expand...

I'm not familuar with Harley's and double stacking.

The radial engine is a reciprocating type internal combustion engine configuration in which the cylinders "radiate" outward from a central crankcase like the spokes of a wheel.

This is according to Wikipedia

Thanks Mike
 
Bold & Old said:
From what I read the radial engines are always odd number cylinders..... like 3 5 7 9 etcetera cylinders.

Harley as you state is a 2 cylinder configuration but it still isn't a odd number engine with 2 cylinders.

I dont think it would be considered a radial engine.

not familuar with Harley's.
Click to expand...
Harleys fire on an unusual firing order, I believe 120 degrees, NOT 180 degrees like most Rice burners.... this is what gives them their unique idle sound....
 
I’ve got a friend who was an MMI trained H-D dealer mechanic that I got to help out with bikes in the home shop. They technically were a copy of part of a radial engine with a single crank pin on two huge flywheels with a dog leg interlocking rod arrangement and a timed breather system for returning oil to main oil tank via positive crankcase pressure that it generated. You can see some WW1 aircraft design in the overall layout. While they could be classified as primitive, I would not classify one as simple. The crank pins are all lined up on keywayed tapers into the flywheel and have to be aligned and tourqed together (5 piece crank, 450ft pounds of torque on the crank nuts) and almost everything else is mounted with ball or tapered roller bearings.
 
Last edited:
[="Backrd.Junkyard, post: 912193974, member: 38073"]I’ve got a friend who was an MMI trained dealer mechanic that I got to help out with bikes in the home shop. They technically were a copy of part of a radial engine with a single crank pin on two huge flywheels with a dog leg interlocking rod arrangement and a timed breather system for returning oil to main oil tank via positive crankcase pressure that it generated. You can see some WW1 aircraft design in the overall layout. While they could be classified as primitive, I would not classify one as simple. The crank pins are all lined up on keywayed tapers into the flywheel and have to be aligned and tourqed together (5 piece crank, 450ft pounds of torque on the crank nuts) then almost everything else is ball or tapered roller bearings.[/QUOTE]

Thanks....:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
Bold & Old said:
That is very interesting especially the torque values .... must have been big & heavy for a motorcycle?

thinking outside the box:thumbsup:

got any pictures?
Click to expand...
Oh, you are absolutely correct! Those big flywheels have some serious inertia going on.I’ll look some up from the web here. What amazed me was that when aligning the flywheels on an Evo engine, you have to use a dead soft lead hammer. The through hardening process was such that if you marred the flywheels during alignment that it would lead to a stress crack. There are so many odd quirks like that with them that I am quick to correct people who say “It’s like rebuilding a small block Chevrolet, how hard can it be!?”. No, it isn’t. It’s closer to working on aircraft radial engine. Go to the second page and rotate and you can see how one rod big end fits into the split on the big end of the other.
https://www.denniskirk.com/harley-davidson/engine-components
Here you can see them assembled. Shafts in the center are held in by thin nuts from the back, also on a keyed taper that has to be pre-torqued and aligned before final torque.
https://www.denniskirk.com/harley-davidson/crankshaft-assembly
 
You’ve got a glorified piece of angle iron with two huge pins that come out of it. It goes in a bench vise and the pins go through a pair holes in the flywheels. We had myself and his customer at his home shop with a 12 foot long 3 inch diameter steel pipe fouling the legs of the workbench to hold it still while he used a 4 foot Snap-On 3/4 inch drive torque wrench to tighten the crank nuts. We just about destroyed that workbench tightening that stuff down. You really want that fixture set up on a piece of structural steel anchored in as part of the garage floor. Here’s the drive axle on the crank that goes to the primary drive sprocket.
https://www.jpcycles.com/product/423-577/s-s-cycle-sprocket-shaft-assembly?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA-S&S Cycle-Products&utm_id=google_10875277419_108068033518_457864366532_aud-1317110812462:pla-940240101269_m__423-577_Cj0KCQjw_4-SBhCgARIsAAlegrVLhBQ0RYVv79DBZLJm5ZsLqdaH9XU4DG_nnp9htqH8WS16EtxZ2G8aAsyZEALw_wcB&utm_term=940240101269&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_4-SBhCgARIsAAlegrVLhBQ0RYVv79DBZLJm5ZsLqdaH9XU4DG_nnp9htqH8WS16EtxZ2G8aAsyZEALw_wcB
 
Last edited:
OK........ Lets get back into the topic being the Adams Farwell and the creative pioneers that got us were we are today.
 
joe smith said:
So the APU was also a Radial?? Just like most of the M4 WWII tanks
What was the APU in a B17??
Click to expand...

The APUs were made in Lawrance New Jersey

The APU turned a electrical generator engine for the B-29 bomber, and perhaps
for other ground power applications also.

They're about 24-30 inches in diameter, and weigh 60 or 80 pounds approx.

They are cute as hell, and look like half size Kinner engines.

37 horsepower, designation Lawrance B-75.

I know for a fact that the Lawrance radial has been used on more than
one light experimental aircraft over the years.

The Lawrance radial APUs were mounted vertically in the B-29s instead of horizontally.

They need some adjustment and other work to be usable for an aircraft, including
re-routing the oil pickup.

A thrust bearings would have to be used due to repositioning for a horizontal running.

For this reason I felt I was over my head and did not want to take the time to figure out how this was to be done with so little info available.

Hope you all are understanding this... Mike
 
Last edited:
That was the coolest engine I’ve ever seen. I really can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe it’s the beer? Thank you for sharing! Mike.
 
The main purpose for those rotating cylinders with the rotary engines was to increase engine cooling while the vehicle (or airplane) was stationary or moving so slowly that there wasn't enough cooling air blowing past. This way, the fins were always in a brisk airstream.
main-qimg-03b116f5ef324a9fe6aac2a787014d7e.gif
 
74gtx said:
That was the coolest engine I’ve ever seen. I really can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe it’s the beer? Thank you for sharing! Mike.
Click to expand...
Basically very early aircraft technology. A rotary (Not a wankel/Mazda or a radial) has the crank bolted to the plane, the prop bolted to the cylinders, and engine case and prop rotate as a piece.
The ww1 planes that used a rotary definitely had handling quirks. They would automatically dive when banked one direction, and climb turning the other way, due to the centrifugal force of all that metal spinning around.
The repop ww1 fighters all have radials. If you look at legit ww1 film, you can see the rotary's cylinders revolving around with the prop when they are started.
 
And we think it's bad when we find the wrong balancer installed on an engine being the cause of vibration. I bet a severe imbalance takes on a whole new level here, like the whole vehicle turning into a lopsided washing machine on spin cycle...
 
Backrd.Junkyard said:
And we think it's bad when we find the wrong balancer installed on an engine being the cause of vibration. I bet a severe imbalance takes on a whole new level here, like the whole vehicle turning into a lopsided washing machine on spin cycle...
Click to expand...

You are right..

Referring to the Adams Farwell engine that is.... the rotating cylinders may had some sort of counter weights to off set throws as a modern crankshaft.

The pivot shaft must have been quit stout with a thrust bearing on one end and roller bearings.

The Adams Farwell engine shows it rotating quit smoothly.... possibly with a governor limiting the RPMs that be very low.

Never the less there had to be some vibrations..... and overtime it wound not be to practical for longevity I would think.

The aircraft radials would be simpler with just the internal counter balanced crankshaft turning.

This may be why it went extinct with just another failed invention... the video shows it at a idle.

good point.
 
Thanks for posting that and it was my first time to see that type of engine!
 
A friend of mine (Bruce Koch my neighbor 25 years ago) who has two BT 13s.... or a bomber trainer aircraft that I had the pleasure to have had a ride in.

https://wmof.com/bt-13.html?msclkid=57a77ddeb22c11ec8804d0c82b919dd4

A big heavy powerful radial-engine that was a supercharged Pratt-Whitney engine powered both of his BT-13s.

The engine had to be powerful with a variable pitched prop to thrust the aircraft forward fast enough to get and stay airborne.

Bruce told me that if the aircraft lost power it would dropped like a rock...... they were not gliders.

He told me this before I took the ride... a white knuckle ride and more.:wetting:


Interesting enough one of his aircrafts fuselage was made of wood due to the material shortage during the war and was skinned with some sort of cloth fabric covering the back fuselage.

The other was covered in aluminum and made later I suppose........ (the one I rode in).

One ride was enough for me....... he is officer in the Civil air petrol in Michigan......

He was restoring his second wooden BT 13 aircraft and he also was a certified aircraft mechanic so he did all his work him self with the blessing of the FAA rules.

The ride was exhilarating fast and loud airborne in a short distance......... and it had a appetite of lots fuel in a hurry.

There is a lot more to this story but to keep this a interesting post I will stop here.

picture is not his aircraft.
1024px-BT-13_Valiant.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Texpar
  • Locked
FOR SALE 1970 Coronet Restomod. BUY THE ONE MOPAR FORGOT TO BUILD!! $26000
Replies
4
Views
5K
Texpar
Texpar
alleyoopmgv
I Wanted One Of These So Bad When I Was A Kid!!
Replies
6
Views
1K
*mopar*or*no*car*
*mopar*or*no*car*
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top