panel gaps and subframe connectors

[mopar4don]

I am getting ready to set all the panel gaps and install UScartool subframe connectors.

Presently the car is sitting on a body jig. And it will go on a rotisserie to finish out the bottom and all body work.

(The body jig supports the car at the 8 frame locations)

My question is with the car on the body jig, should I gap all of the panels, and install the subframe connectors?

I am concerned that if I gap and install the subframe connectors while it is on the jig, then later when it is on its suspension my gaps may change.


Just not sure what I can get away with

 

[dvw]

If it's supported in 8 spots you'll be fine. Put the connectors in first. Then set the door gaps, then align the front end sheet metal. Note that some times you'll need to trim and weld to get the gaps really good. The factory stuff was not all that great.
Doug

 

[zyzzyx]

Trim the connectors with a die grinder until you are happy with the fit. Put them in place and use four
sheet metal screws to keep them in place. Tack them in place every 2" and finish the welding when you
put it on the rotisserie. No need to worry about gaps now!

 

[mopar4don]

If it's supported in 8 spots you'll be fine. Put the connectors in first. Then set the door gaps, then align the front end sheet metal. Note that some times you'll need to trim and weld to get the gaps really good. The factory stuff was not all that great.
Doug

Thanks Doug.
So what is a good gap? a paint stick (which is about 5/32 or .156) or 3/16 (.188)

Trim the connectors with a die grinder until you are happy with the fit. Put them in place and use four
sheet metal screws to keep them in place. Tack them in place every 2" and finish the welding when you
put it on the rotisserie. No need to worry about gaps now!

But dont you think I should gap the car after the subframe connectors?

 

[dvw]

A good gap is what you like. 1/8" would be excellent. There is a reason I'd put the frame connectors in first. Nothing will move around after they're in. If you gap it first and it moves you've wasted your time.
Doug

 

[eldubb440]

funny how guys go about things different ways....... I support and gap the entire car in a mock up, and leave it that way while welding in connectors

as to how wide gaps should be, this tends to vary a little from car to car. Starting with the hood to cowl gap, which is usually a little wide to allow the hood to open without touching; once the hood is in place, it will dictate how far forward the fenders sit as the front of the fenders are flush with the front of the hood. At this point I "center" the doors in the door opening. Sometimes it's as wide as 5/16, other times it's as narrow as 3/16.

 

[Beekeeper]

funny how guys go about things different ways....... I support and gap the entire car in a mock up, and leave it that way while welding in connectors

as to how wide gaps should be, this tends to vary a little from car to car. Starting with the hood to cowl gap, which is usually a little wide to allow the hood to open without touching; once the hood is in place, it will dictate how far forward the fenders sit as the front of the fenders are flush with the front of the hood. At this point I "center" the doors in the door opening. Sometimes it's as wide as 5/16, other times it's as narrow as 3/16.

View attachment 1289992

View attachment 1289993

The only reason your gaps are so good is the dog is an expert in body panel gaps.
He has that look like here you see that’s how it’s done

 

[mopar4don]

A good gap is what you like. 1/8" would be excellent. There is a reason I'd put the frame connectors in first. Nothing will move around after they're in. If you gap it first and it moves you've wasted your time.
Doug

Thanks Doug, That is what I dont want to happen. So in my case (because the car is supported on the body jig) if I weld in the subframe connectors then do all of the gaps I should be good right?

funny how guys go about things different ways....... I support and gap the entire car in a mock up, and leave it that way while welding in connectors

as to how wide gaps should be, this tends to vary a little from car to car. Starting with the hood to cowl gap, which is usually a little wide to allow the hood to open without touching; once the hood is in place, it will dictate how far forward the fenders sit as the front of the fenders are flush with the front of the hood. At this point I "center" the doors in the door opening. Sometimes it's as wide as 5/16, other times it's as narrow as 3/16.

Thanks eldubb I appreciate your input!

 

[Cranky]

Factory body gaps were mediocre at best. IF you found a car on a dealer lot with good gaps, that usually was the one to look into buying. The factory door gaps sucked big time at the bottom and seems the more trim the car had, the worse it was. If the car is supported at 8 points, then I'd think you shouldn't have a problem installing the frame connectors first. Still wouldn't hurt to stick on the doors before hand and see if the body is straight to begin with.....especially if you've never had the car together before and you know it's been rode hard and put up wet. I twisted a 67 Dart years ago.....but it was jumped and it came down on the right rear first and slammed the left front down pretty hard. Doing crap like that might be another reason why my back sucks.

 

[mopar4don]

Ok I have the frame connectors tacked in. I have the gaps in the ball park but will need dialed in.

I was wondering if it might be better to mount the car to the rotisserie and take care of everything under the car?
Then gap the car while its on the rotisserie?

Things to do under the car:
- finish welding the frame connectors
- weld in torq boxes
- dress all the welds from the floor pans and trunk pans
- paint or undercoat

After all this is done then do all of the gaps

 

[eldubb440]

Ok I have the frame connectors tacked in. I have the gaps in the ball park but will need dialed in.

I was wondering if it might be better to mount the car to the rotisserie and take care of everything under the car?
Then gap the car while its on the rotisserie?

Things to do under the car:
- finish welding the frame connectors
- weld in torq boxes
- dress all the welds from the floor pans and trunk pans
- paint or undercoat

After all this is done then do all of the gaps

for what it's worth, I get most/all the structural welding done before mounting to the rotisserie. At least more than enough of it to hold the car rigid.

 

[topside]

A rotisserie only attaches front & rear. A weak-ish structure will bow. So, do your strengthening, then the gaps, then the rotisserie.
Chrysler had 'em all over the place, and high/low hoods & trunk lids too.

 

[fesser]

I know this is an old thread, but it discusses exactly what I am trying to learn more about and the questions and comments are dealing with most of my questions and concerns. I do have some more questions though...
I always assumed that welding in the full subframe connectors would logically be done while the car was on a rotisserie of some sort to avoid doing numerous welds while under the car facing up. It seems that isn't necessarily what most people do.
I understand concerns about the body flexing since rotisserie mounting points are generally at the very ends of the vehicle.
So my question is, if the car was on a rotisserie and was rotated until it was perpendicular to the floor, would it really flex enough to be measurable. The way I see it is that it would be like trying to flex a flat panel (the floor) that was reinforced with a box structure (roof, cowl, tail panels). I can see if it was level to the floor that the whole structure might sag, but on end it would be akin to trying to stretch the bottom end of the flat panel. No?
Also, my car has factory undercoating which I would much rather remove while standing than while laying on my back having all that junk end up in my face.

 

[Cranky]

I know this is an old thread, but it discusses exactly what I am trying to learn more about and the questions and comments are dealing with most of my questions and concerns. I do have some more questions though...
I always assumed that welding in the full subframe connectors would logically be done while the car was on a rotisserie of some sort to avoid doing numerous welds while under the car facing up. It seems that isn't necessarily what most people do.
I understand concerns about the body flexing since rotisserie mounting points are generally at the very ends of the vehicle.
So my question is, if the car was on a rotisserie and was rotated until it was perpendicular to the floor, would it really flex enough to be measurable. The way I see it is that it would be like trying to flex a flat panel (the floor) that was reinforced with a box structure (roof, cowl, tail panels). I can see if it was level to the floor that the whole structure might sag, but on end it would be akin to trying to stretch the bottom end of the flat panel. No?
Also, my car has factory undercoating which I would much rather remove while standing than while laying on my back having all that junk end up in my face.

Hardtop or sedan/coupe? I assume the body is totally striped down with no heavy parts hanging on. Lots of cars get restored on the 'swing' so don't think you're going to have any problems unless you have body rot going on. And I know all too well about undercoating. One car got stood up on it's tail using a very large A frame but have seen others lift one side at a time.

 

[fesser]

Hardtop or sedan/coupe? I assume the body is totally striped down with no heavy parts hanging on. Lots of cars get restored on the 'swing' so don't think you're going to have any problems unless you have body rot going on. And I know all too well about undercoating. One car got stood up on it's tail using a very large A frame but have seen others lift one side at a time.

The car is a coupe (the one in my avatar). Currently stripped down except for the trunk lid. It is sitting on bolt on casters now. I don't bend very well these days so being able to look straight at it would be a huge help.

 

[eldubb440]

I know this is an old thread, but it discusses exactly what I am trying to learn more about and the questions and comments are dealing with most of my questions and concerns. I do have some more questions though...
I always assumed that welding in the full subframe connectors would logically be done while the car was on a rotisserie of some sort to avoid doing numerous welds while under the car facing up. It seems that isn't necessarily what most people do.
I understand concerns about the body flexing since rotisserie mounting points are generally at the very ends of the vehicle.
So my question is, if the car was on a rotisserie and was rotated until it was perpendicular to the floor, would it really flex enough to be measurable. The way I see it is that it would be like trying to flex a flat panel (the floor) that was reinforced with a box structure (roof, cowl, tail panels). I can see if it was level to the floor that the whole structure might sag, but on end it would be akin to trying to stretch the bottom end of the flat panel. No?
Also, my car has factory undercoating which I would much rather remove while standing than while laying on my back having all that junk end up in my face.

you can mount the car if it's not a weak, rusty hull.........

spin it up to remove undercoat and clean..........

then put the car upright in its natural position......

lower the car onto a couple jackstands under the spring hangers, probably partially supported by the rotisserie to aid in allighnment.........

hang the doors, line them up properly with the rockers and quarters.......

go underneath and weld like 50% of the frame connectors, mostly at the front and back where they connect to the rails.......

remove the doors or tie them shut.........

spin it up to where you are comfortable, and go to town.......

if the **** on your foot ends up being cake; you're obviously on the right track

 

[fesser]

you can mount the car if it's not a weak, rusty hull.........

spin it up to remove undercoat and clean..........

then put the car upright in its natural position......

lower the car onto a couple jackstands under the spring hangers, probably partially supported by the rotisserie to aid in allighnment.........

hang the doors, line them up properly with the rockers and quarters.......

go underneath and weld like 50% of the frame connectors, mostly at the front and back where they connect to the rails.......

remove the doors or tie them shut.........

spin it up to where you are comfortable, and go to town.......

if the **** on your foot ends up being cake; you're obviously on the right track

Thanks. That sounds like the best plan. Especially since I can do the undercoating removal and then watch my friend get showered with sparks when the car is back on the ground. He doesn’t mind getting burned, but then he is one of those guys who smells his shoes to see if he stepped in cake.

 

[eldubb440]

Thanks. That sounds like the best plan. Especially since I can do the undercoating removal and then watch my friend get showered with sparks when the car is back on the ground. He doesn’t mind getting burned, but then he is one of those guys who smells his shoes to see if he stepped in cake.

it wasn't my shoe, lmao; I don't smell the bottom of my shoes........ I had a blob of brown stuff stuck to the bottom of my bare foot..... turned out to be a piece of apple cake that fell onto the floor....... just for clarification

 

[RemCharger]

it wasn't my shoe, lmao; I don't smell the bottom of my shoes........ I had a blob of brown stuff stuck to the bottom of my bare foot..... turned out to be a piece of apple cake that fell onto the floor....... just for clarification

Did you at least get the satisfaction of it squishing through your toes?

 

[eldubb440]

Did you at least get the satisfaction of it squishing through your toes?

it just a small piece....... like the size of a raisin