PayPal Friends and Family

[XS22J8R]

Ok. I don’t have an account with cash in it.

If you have a bank account linked to your Paypal account, the money to pay a Friends and Family payment request is taken from your bank account with no fees. If one's account is just linked to a credit card not a bank account, then they will get a fee for Paypal making the payment. I believe if you have both a credit card and a bank account linked to your Paypal, they give you a choice of which one you want to use. I don't have a credit card linked to my account, just my checking account.
One thing to be aware of as a buyer or provider of services, at some point if you are getting enough F&F payments, Paypal will cut you off or start charging fees or something like that. I'm not sure what triggers that, but I know it happens. I'm a member of a not for profit flying club and for a couple years we could pay our monthly dues and rental fees bill with Paypal friends and family. But eventually Paypal decided too many F&F payments were being used by the clubs account and started charging the regular business transaction fees on members payments so the club treasurer stopped allowing us to pay that way.

 

[SlingLow]

There was talk that PayPal was going to limit those transactions per year.

I manufactured and sold luggage racks and other parts for the Polaris Slingshot from 2018 to 2022. Initially I sold mostly through a couple forums, and later through facebook which my wife handled. I used paypal almost exclusively for payment. I always requested friends and family, and the forum members would usually comply because I had a rep. Facebook customers would usually use commerce and I paid a fee. In 2022, paypal became very aggressive about requiring a social security number for anyone receiving over $600 (I think) in a year through F&F, the purpose being, of course, to 1099 you at the end of the year. I refused to give it to them and made the decision to discontinue production and wind up the sales in early 2023.

On a related note, I just made my first sale on this forum and the buyer used friends and family (thank you sir!). The product should arrive out east sometime tomorrow.

 

[stage3]

It seems like every time I buy something from a member here they make it a point to tell me they only do PayPal friends and family, otherwise send me a money order etc. Is there a time that you can’t use friends and family on PayPal? I always use friends and family and never have a problem.

Friends and family equals No 1099's at end of year (30% tax right off the top whether you made or lost money on the item)
Goods and services equals Guaranteed 1099 at EOY.
Same with ebay, except over there you also pay 16% fee's. so at 46% right off the top mite as well just throw it away...

 

[biomedtechguy]

I'm a member of a not for profit flying club

As in model airplanes?
In the mid to late 70s, I joined the New Orleans East Flying Club (NOEFC) but soon got focused on the 1/8th or 1/12th? car racing deal and did that for a while. At the time, a .18 to .21 cu in engine was the limit. They burned methanol, common fuel in Cox plastic model planes and the larger ones.
To give another time-line cue, a disc brake was developed that was a big step-up from the standard kit drum brake.
I really enjoyed that hobby, and I recall trying to get the top speed clocked by a motorcycle in the city park one day. When we lined up for the speed match to see how fast my car went, everyone including the guy riding the Kawasaki motorcycle was surprised how badly my model smoked him from 0 to top speed (around 50 mph).
It didn't take long for the car I drove to take precedent over the model cars.

 

[XS22J8R]

As in model airplanes?
In the mid to late 70s, I joined the New Orleans East Flying Club (NOEFC) but soon got focused on the 1/8th or 1/12th? car racing deal and did that for a while. At the time, a .18 to .21 cu in engine was the limit. They burned methanol, common fuel in Cox plastic model planes and the larger ones.
To give another time-line cue, a disc brake was developed that was a big step-up from the standard kit drum brake.
I really enjoyed that hobby, and I recall trying to get the top speed clocked by a motorcycle in the city park one day. When we lined up for the speed match to see how fast my car went, everyone including the guy riding the Kawasaki motorcycle was surprised how badly my model smoked him from 0 to top speed (around 50 mph).
It didn't take long for the car I drove to take precedent over the model cars.

No, 1:1 scale airplanes. ~75 members and 4 planes.

 

[XS22J8R]

Friends and family equals No 1099's at end of year (30% tax right off the top whether you made or lost money on the item)
Goods and services equals Guaranteed 1099 at EOY.
Same with ebay, except over there you also pay 16% fee's. so at 46% right off the top mite as well just throw it away...

That is why I only take F&F, checks or cash for payments for what little I sell. These days I am mostly motivated in getting rid of clutter, I'm not trying to make a living or get rich when I sell a few parts or a diecast car or whatever. I am not sure what happened a few years ago, but I got a 1099 from Paypal in '21. I think my train wreck of a state started requiring those for over $600 in electronic payments before it became a federal requirement. It caused me a lot of stress trying to figure out how to deal with it and report it when doing my taxes.
Since then, my personal standard is the 3 methods I listed earlier, or else no sale. I'll throw my dust covered accumulations in the trash rather than deal with tax hassles. And it's not even a case of trying to cheat on taxes. I have no purchase records of 95% of my stuff, and when I sell some part I bought in the 90s and never used, there is a good chance I'm actually selling it for less than I paid for it. Or maybe I'm making a few bucks. I just don't know, as I didn't keep detailed records of everything I've ever bought, be it at a swap meet, or from an ad in Hemmings, or off ebay or wherever. So the fact I am expected to have detailed records and have documentation for nickel and dime selling, essentially no different than selling clutter at a Garage sale, is something I find absurd.
For the last few years I started getting a spot at a car show swap meet or two, something I hadn't done for probably over 10 years. With fees and tax requirements, not to mention shipping costs and issues, making online selling too much trouble, then the trouble of getting up early and driving somewhere to stand around in the sun for the day to unload stuff for cash is now less burdensome.

 

[OneWheelPeel]

I can understand that part, years ago I started selling audio cassette racks on Etsy that I 3d printed, very little money and then found out I had to calculate that in my taxes, I figured out what I had to do but it took the shine off the venture since it was more of a hobby that I could sell to people more than anything.

 

[Sixpactogo]

But why would a buyer ever use goods and services?

The answer to this question is......When you do not know the seller. It is your only protection against a scammer. If you use the F&F, and send money to a scammer, you are out your money with zero chance of getting it back. Using goods and services, if you are scammed PayPal will refund your money and go after the seller. I use the goods and services all the time. The 4% or whatever it is is an insurance policy IMO. I am not a scammer but none of my buyers know who I am so I don't expect them to trust me wholeheartedly. Plus when I sell something, I always like to send an invoice. That way I can use PayPal's shipping services and create a label at home rather than going to the USPS or UPS. Shipping is cheaper that way also.
By the way, I have been threatened that I will be getting a 1099 at the end of the year but never have yet. I guess I don't meet the cap but I don't sell anything but used parts.
Another reason I always like to send a PayPal invoice is because I always describe the item as used parts plus a breakdown of shipping costs. PayPal charges their fees on the total so If I ever get a 1099, I will be able to have some documentation of what they are taxing me on.

 

[OneWheelPeel]

Also Zelle seems as convenient as PP, I'm speaking only as the guy who has sent money though, I've not received money with it.

 

[biomedtechguy]

If you use the F&F, and send money to a scammer, you are out your money with zero chance of getting it back.

Zero chance, 100% correct.
I immediately contacted my bank, since that's how I funded the F&F payment to the SCAM "ammo sales" company and I was S.O.L.

 

[Cop car wagon]

No man is an island. I'm a mopar guy, and have been for years. The locals know me, although nation wide, no chance.
If I was selling something for big money, you could get a referral. My sold items here show that I've delivered, so isn't that vetting?
The problem is....all of us have the bulk of what we need, so finding homes for all the extras is difficult. And not all the mopar people are on here.
And i'm not on facebook.
Before the internet, we went to swap meets. They were fun.

 

[Budnicks]

You have almost no recourse if the deal goes sour, using 'Friends & Family'
buyer & pay methods beware, caveat emptor
unless you actually know &/or are actual friends or family with them,
it's the price of doing business,
these people constantly selling stuff (& a few on here too) don't want to pay the fees
or are doing/running 'a parts business' using sites like this, like they are on here
many not all (some are innocent too) 'are cheating the system',
you can get caught up in it too, with lil' to no recourse
you decide for yourselves...

if you think it's shady or have any suspicions 'it is/they are',
tell a Mod here, many (if not all, if they know) will not steer you wrong...


I won't do it, F&F
unless I know them or they're a long time & reputable member etc....
Just because it's a member, that doesn't mean they aren't bad to deal with
I know 1st hand...

to each their own

 

[Budnicks]

I was told when you use Friends and Family if there is a scam or problem, you have NO recourse. You just loose, where as not used, you do have a right of redress. Is that correct?

 

[Melk-man]

But why would a buyer ever use goods and services?

pretty sure if you do F&F there is no recourse for dispute on buyers part when they send $, so some buyers may not want to do it F&F for that reason .. just reading posts, and some said this already. FYI. if you don't know someone, i'd do goods and services, and make sure you are set up with PP with a good credit card that can help with disputing a fraud.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

I have sent and received money via F&F and there's absolutely zero fee.

If you use credit cards, there will be a fee.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

If you use credit cards, there will be a fee.

Correct.

 

[Crackedback]

I'll give a sellers perspective that has a good reputation in the community. I was having this conversation with a potential buyer today regarding paypal. Theft, fees are one deal, 1099 is another (I already do my taxes and don't need to be nanny stated). If you do get a 1099, you can hammer the snot out of it, take a loss and reduce your overall tax bill. It's an aggressive approach, but, can be done as they are now starting to treat you as a business.

A shady *** buyer (not exclusive to mopars, ford and chevy guys do it) uses paypal goods/services to pay. The item shows delivered, buyer says it wasn't. Offer to send a second unit, then the excuses fly, sold the car, going a different direction... don't need a replacement. Doesn't make any sense. Buyer files a claim with PP. Payapl takes back money, out the product and cash.

Best situation is when I'm at a show and I see someone that has done this, with the car and my product that was "not delivered" is installed on the ride. Always a great feeling.

Even if a buyer want to pay double my asking price, I'm not taking payment via goods from paypal. Period. Screw me once rule in effect. One exception... buyer sends me cash for all the money I'm out for lost sales and materials. If they do, they can pay me however they like... Actually, I'll give them a set up free!

 

[Sixpactogo]

I'll give a sellers perspective that has a good reputation in the community. I was having this conversation with a potential buyer today regarding paypal. Theft, fees are one deal, 1099 is another (I already do my taxes and don't need to be nanny stated). If you do get a 1099, you can hammer the snot out of it, take a loss and reduce your overall tax bill. It's an aggressive approach, but, can be done as they are now starting to treat you as a business.

A shady *** buyer (not exclusive to mopars, ford and chevy guys do it) uses paypal goods/services to pay. The item shows delivered, buyer says it wasn't. Offer to send a second unit, then the excuses fly, sold the car, going a different direction... don't need a replacement. Doesn't make any sense. Buyer files a claim with PP. Payapl takes back money, out the product and cash.

Best situation is when I'm at a show and I see someone that has done this, with the car and my product that was "not delivered" is installed on the ride. Always a great feeling.

Even if a buyer want to pay double my asking price, I'm not taking payment via goods from paypal. Period. Screw me once rule in effect. One exception... buyer sends me cash for all the money I'm out for lost sales and materials. If they do, they can pay me however they like... Actually, I'll give them a set up free!

Wow! I knew there are scam artists everywhere and they spend sleepless nights figuring out new ways to scam someone but I never dreamed they could stoop that low as to say it was undelivered when the tracking shows otherwise but I suppose the porch pirates have given them a new option. I wonder if PayPal keeps tabs on those sort of claims. Sorry you have had to deal with it. The harness I got from you is still doing it's job I think. I don't drive at night very often.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

to say it was undelivered when the tracking shows otherwise

I have had this problem several times where I haven’t received my package but tracking says it’s delivered. I have also received other people’s packages clearly not addressed to me, and not a neighbors package, but someone who doesn’t even live close to me. It happens more often than you think. All the carriers do is scan the barcode and mark delivered. It doesn’t have to be delivered to the correct address. I like the drivers that take a picture for proof of delivery, but not all of them do it. I have security cameras so I can always prove I didn’t get the package.

 

[GTXDAN]

I've used Pirate Ship to ship several things and their prices are really good. You can do it all at home and just put the package in the mail if that's how you choose to ship it.
Don't know if anybody has used Western Union to send money but it works good and the money goes almost instantly. I bought a part from Canadian 1968 in London, Ontario a couple of weeks ago and he let me do Western Union just to try it out for him. You just use your credit or debit card (I think you can tie it to your bank acct. too) and put in the persons name as it appears on their license and you get a tracking # that he gives to the Western Union person to get the cash. I put in his name and address to find a Western Union location and it showed 150 in his area. Canadian 1968 said they wouldn't give cash but they deposited it right into his account through his debit card.
We used it when I was working in Mex to send money there lots of times as it was fast, cheap and secure.