PLUG Power Inc?? Hydrogen Co....

[Cranky]

Been hearing about hydrogen fuel cell systems for years now and even know someone that was building a prototype but think he sold the vehicle and plans. Need to give him a call as it's been awhile since talking to him. Anyways, is this stuff ever going to get a foot hold? PLUG just got their stock annihilated by nearly 50%. To me, I think this is the way to go vs EV crap......

Plug Power Inc. is an American company engaged in the development of hydrogen fuel cell systems that replace conventional batteries in equipment and vehicles powered by electricity.

 

[Photon440]

You could go to your local Toyota dealer and take a look at the Mirai which is fuel cell powered. Depends on whether there are any hydrogen fueling stations in your area though. There are a half dozen around here.

 

[Detective D]

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator

I do have to call into question the "electric" fuel stations. In WI, there is no such thing, and a lot of the regular places that had chargers have removed them in the last 3 years.
However, to the topic at hand, look at the hydrogen network and you should have your answer.

Edit: oh on the electric front, it might not be as bad as it looks. You can zoom in. Upon inspection of the local area, it actually looks fairly reasonable for accuracy.
Of note: scroll in on WI and look at the Fox Valley area, like Oshkosh or FonDuLac.
Oshkosh is almost 67,000 people. I am sure the (4) charge points will suffice.
I bring this up because Hydrogen vs electric: only one is being written into law as state mandates.

Japan has taken an aggressive approach to installing a hydrogen network. Slightly more plausible on a long island, but it is also a logical approach vs what is going on here.

 

[Cranky]

You could go to your local Toyota dealer and take a look at the Mirai which is fuel cell powered. Depends on whether there are any hydrogen fueling stations in your area though. There are a half dozen around here.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator

I do have to call into question the "electric" fuel stations. In WI, there is no such thing, and a lot of the regular places that had chargers have removed them in the last 3 years.
However, to the topic at hand, look at the hydrogen network and you should have your answer.

Well, thinking about maybe buying a few shares of the stock....but maybe not this one as they report that they are running out of cash.....

 

[Detective D]

Well, thinking about maybe buying a few shares of the stock....but maybe not this one as they report that they are running out of cash.....

They won;t ever succeed unless the Fed approves construction of a hydrogen network. Guess how well that goes in the US with lobbying?

I looked at the map harder for Oshkosh in my example.
Of the 4 charging stations located there-
One is in the university grounds.
(2) are on Bergstrom new car lots. LOL, they need to be able to charge their new cars to sell them. I am not sure they are even open to the public, I would have to drive down to check.
(1) is in a grocery store parking lot. This is probably the only legit public access charger in the city.

Again, this one is being mandated by laws.
Would it not make sense to pursue hydrogen? Of course it would. it won't happen in current state. It has gotten to the point rational discussion about these topics is almost pointless. The evidence is simply overwhelming.
And more keeps piling in.

 

[Cranky]

They won;t ever succeed unless the Fed approves construction of a hydrogen network. Guess how well that goes in the US with lobbying?

I looked at the map harder for Oshkosh in my example.
Of the 4 charging stations located there-
One is in the university grounds.
(2) are on Bergstrom new car lots. LOL, they need to be able to charge their new cars to sell them. I am not sure they are even open to the public, I would have to drive down to check.
(1) is in a grocery store parking lot. This is probably the only legit public access charger in the city.

Again, this one is being mandated by laws.
Would it not make sense to pursue hydrogen? Of course it would. it won't happen in current state. It has gotten to the point rational discussion about these topics is almost pointless. The evidence is simply overwhelming.
And more keeps piling in.

Refineries use hydrogen in the making of fuels etc so there's at least some technology out there in the making of it and most of the larger refineries are always looking for more efficiency in making their products.

 

[Budnicks]

Not as long as the Feds & lobbyists all get rich off
& are pushing the "current" BS Green Energy crappola,
pushing the nonsustainable EV nonsense...

Especially in places where we can't even supply enough 'electricity already'
they want to pug in another 100,000,000 EVs...
While promoting expensive & dangerous battery technology,
EV cars, planes trucks busses
(fires you can't put out, even under water)
& rare earth materials, mining/raping the landscape (mostly China & Russia)
to feed the solar & EV nonsense, being pushed, mandated...

We have to import into the country from our foreign adversaries/enemies...

No common sense from the feds or 'the resident' dwelling in DC...

Hydrogen would be way to logical, H2O exhaust,
& we could produce it all right here, not buy from, or enrich our enemies...
That'd make way too much sense...

Hydrogen can be explosive too...

Why not the "all of the above approach" ?
Why limit it to or just push/or govt backing one thing/one technology ?
(like expensive & unsustainable EV BS, new Green Deal)
Let the buying public talk with their wallets, free will & free trade,
let customer approvals, make for supply & demand, it really works...

Not forcing some BS on the general public, most are clueless about...

 

[Cranky]

Not as long as the Feds & lobbyists all get rich off
& are pushing the "current" BS Green Energy crappola,
pushing the nonsustainable EV nonsense,
especially in places where we can't even supply enough 'electricity already'
they want to pug in another 100,000,000 EVs
While promoting expensive & dangerous battery technology
(fires you can't put out)
& rare earth materials, mining raping the landscape (mostly China & Russia)
to feed the solar & EV nonsense
we have to import into the country from our foreign adversaries/enemies...
No common sense from the feds or 'the resident' dwelling in DC...

Hydrogen would be way to logical, H2O exhaust,
& we could produce it all right here, not buy from, or enrich our enemies...
That'd make way too much sense...

Hydrogen can be explosive too...

The EV crap is dying.....and EV's burn pretty good too lol and have you ever been close to a hydrogen fire? I have and it's scary!!

 

[Budnicks]

The EV crap is dying.....and EV's burn pretty good too lol and have you ever been close to a hydrogen fire? I have and it's scary!!

I expanded on my post probably while you were typing...

I agree 110%

 

[Photon440]

I bring this up because Hydrogen vs electric: only one is being written into law as state mandates.

While a lot of news channels and even politicians mention 'all electric' vehicles in the future, looking at the actual legislation itself usually shows language like "zero emissions" or "no gasoline or diesel fueled vehicles", but they aren't specifically mandated to have to use electricity. That Toyota hydrogen car is also listed by the EPA as a zero emission vehicle and so should qualify as well.

 

[Detective D]

While a lot of news channels and even politicians mention 'all electric' vehicles in the future, looking at the actual legislation itself usually shows language like "zero emissions" or "no gasoline or diesel fueled vehicles", but they aren't specifically mandated to have to use electricity. That Toyota hydrogen car is also listed by the EPA as a zero emission vehicle and so should qualify as well.

That doesn't build the hydrogen network.
99% of the USA has no access to hydrogen. The manufacturers know this, and the lobbyists will keep it that way.
Well, at least as long as the investors tell them to. If we see politicians jumping ship to invest in hydrogen distribution companies.......

 

[mpgmike]

Wow!! What a volatile subject! First, there are 2 common methods of producing hydrogen; from natural gas, and electrolysis of water. Using NG produces a hydrogen gas polluted with carbon elements. The carbon contaminates the membranes of hydrogen -- electric fuel cells -- reducing performance over time. Electrolysis can produce a much cleaner H2 gas that does not degrade performance.

Secondly, using hydrogen to power something motive usually involves converting the hydrogen (with either ambient or bottled oxygen) to electricity. This means the motive force is electric.

I'm aware of Toyota's efforts, along with others. The big question is where the H2 comes from. If NG, it will kill your car. If electrolysis, then it will probably last longer than the ICE. Verizon of NJ uses H2 fuel cells to power their entire plant. The grid is too unreliable and dirty to guarantee uninterrupted service. They use NG derived H2, and must perform regular maintenance to the membranes to keep juice flowing.

This approach to a motive force is certainly not dead, but clean H2 is expensive verses the NG stuff. When solar and/or wind H2 (electrolysis) becomes readily available, these technologies have a chance.

 

[eldubb440]

I'm not sure why we aren't using natural gas by now........... fork lifts have been using propane for decades

 

[Photon440]

I'm not sure why we aren't using natural gas by now........... fork lifts have been using propane for decades

Lots of commercial vehicles use it. A lot of our city buses have been running on natural gas, as well as garbage trucks and the municipal pickup truck fleets.

 

[Photon440]

First, there are 2 common methods of producing hydrogen; from natural gas, and electrolysis of water. Using NG produces a hydrogen gas polluted with carbon elements. The carbon contaminates the membranes of hydrogen -- electric fuel cells -- reducing performance over time. Electrolysis can produce a much cleaner H2 gas that does not degrade performance.

While a small scale hydrogen production from natural gas, such as in a high school lab experiment may show carbon impurities, the commercial production methods have so many steps with filters, steam reformers and catalysts that the resulting hydrogen is nearly perfectly pure.

 

[Cranky]

I expanded on my post probably while you were typing...

I agree 110%

I know I type kinda slow but not THAT slow lol