Pretty good Hellcat article
- Thread starter Richard Cranium
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It's always fun to read about high power, in this case more fun because it's a Mopar.
Although I find it odd that the Veyron's 1184 hp. failed to make the top 5 list.
Although I find it odd that the Veyron's 1184 hp. failed to make the top 5 list.
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yep read that in the news letter yesterday, good article...
My guess is the key words "regular production". The Veyron is a totally custom car where each one is built to customer specs. You can't go to a Bugatti dealer and buy one off the lot...
Personally, I think the Sublime SRT Challenger would look great in my garage!
70rr-brian
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"butthurt" That pretty much sums it up for all the shivy and furd guys. They have been crying like a bunch of babies since the day the news came out about the 707.
Herr_Poopschitz
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I think it's more of a 'hey, we can do it too!' from Dodge...and the barrage of commercials that aren't really quantifying anything. Even the 'red' and 'black' key...c'mon. Ford didn't have to do a comparison w/ the GT500 because there was no competition when they came out w/ the 662 hp version. At this point in the game, people want to see more than hp claims and the car sliding around corners and burnouts...they want to see how it stacks up against the competition to validate the hoopla that Dodge is pushing on us.
They've built a lot of interest w/ the publicity campaign, but the campaign is hinged on emotion, and not necessarily facts/numbers. Exhaust clips, supercharged emblems, supercharger whine, air intakes...who gives a f? That's stuff that impresses ricers or older guys that aren't aware of what modern cars are capable of. S or get off the pot. All we have is quarter mile times that have not been reproduced by any testers so far...there's been nothing else to judge the car on. Until then, w/ the history of lackluster performance of the Challengers to this point, people are naturally gonna be skeptical.
The onus is on Dodge to prove the naysayers wrong, and they haven't done it yet. That's not the naysayers fault...
(I misspoke, there are other #'s to judge the car on, but they show the Hellcat as being subpar vs the competition...199 top speed, 20 mpg vs 202 and 24)
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70rr-brian
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1.It’s the most powerful V8 from any car produced in America – ever.
2.It’s the most powerful musclecar produced in America – ever.
3.It’s the most powerful car produced in America – ever.
It doesn't matter if the hellcat runs a 15 second 1/4, has a tendency to catch fire on every third start, wheels falling off at highway speeds, airbags randomly going off breaking the driver's jaw or w/e other crazy scenario you can imagine. Its those 3 previous statements that butthurt all the fanboys. Period.
It won't run with a Z28 on the track, its power to weight will allow others to compete with less power. It will have an enormous amount of shortcomings. But again...
1.It’s the most powerful V8 from any car produced in America – ever.
2.It’s the most powerful musclecar produced in America – ever.
3.It’s the most powerful car produced in America – ever. = BUTTHURT!
Herr_Poopschitz
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I know I'm not real impressed w/ this iteration of the Challenger so far, and it being 'most powerful' doesn't bug me at all.
satman72
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OK, so tell us. What would impress you?
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The Veyron might be built to spec, but they've built over 400 of them and still going. The LaFerrari will be built to 499 units, then that's it. Meanwhile, the McLaren P1 has already sold out of it's total 375 production. And good luck going to a Lambo dealer to find a Lamborghini Veneno, they built only three! So I still think the Veyron should have made the list.
At any rate, I like the car even though it's not a Plymouth.
And I like this article that finds it is better than the Shelby for handling on a wet road course. It's just sad that I'll never have one.http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/dodge/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-review-4039.html
Herr_Poopschitz
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Something better than we've already seen w/ the GT500. Hp/L, so specific output, is approx same as what the GT500 has had for 2 years. There's no new tech or any advancement that's been made...it just makes more gross cuz it's bigger.
Iron block that's borrowed from the truck line. Engineers said they 'could've made an aluminum block'. No s...again, GT500 has it. Why didn't they? 'Added rigidity' - well, that could've been designed into Al as well, so that's a bs reason, so what's the real reason? COST SAVINGS. The biggest complaint about the Challenger is how heavy it is, so instead of supplying the 'ultimate Challenger' w/ a block that could've dropped 80 lbs off the nose to help offset the added weight of the blower and assoc equip, they were cheap and got one from a truck. That's disappointing.
This is more a numbers thing, cuz I typically don't care about top speed, but it bothers me that it makes more power than the GT500, yet is not as fast.
Lastly, the car has what seems to be an awesome 8 speed auto, but the best it can muster is 20 highway (this is not due to weight either, as weight is not a variable associated w/ steady state speeds). The 500 gets 20% better mileage w/ similar specific output...wtf? And to those who argue you don't buy a car like this for mileage, it seems the same arguement could be said about heated steering wheel, AC, etc that it comes w/. It is a measure of how efficient the car and engine are as a single entity, and it clearly isn't as efficient as a 2 year old competitor...
I don't get the hubbub. I have yet to see anything new or outstanding about what this car is doing...it does exactly as it should based on what's been around a few years.
There's a little part of me that thinks this may be the last of the huge powered blue collar cars. Ford and Chevy seem to be focusing their efforts on 'sports cars' rather than 'muscle cars' like the Challenger for future models. Lots of testing at Nurburgring for the other companies lately...
70rr-brian
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Clearly it does bother you. So much so that you whipped out the classic ricer retort.... Yeah, but, but, but mine gets better gas mileage.
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PappyJoe
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Herr_Poopschitz
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Nothing 'ricer' about it. They're called 'facts'.
Please explain to us why it makes approximately the same hp as the GT500, yet gets significantly worse mileage even w/ an 8 speed trans.
Also, we have yet to see what a 6 speed version can do for a true apples-to-apples comparison. Coincidence?
70rr-brian
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Because its a bigger, heavier, true muscle car that has the aerodynamics of a board being pushed through water. Not a pony car pretending to be a muscle car.
The fact is, with Ford's recent '15 chassis change the likelihood of them being able to compete with those sort of power numbers in the Mustang again is unlikely. Now if they came out with a true muscle car to take the engine girth again they could play just fine. A Torino perhaps? As a fellow member pointed out a while back in a different thread, it doesn't matter what Ford or Chevy does. The moment they have caught up, Dodge unleashes a 426 force fed hemi with over 1100 horse and then the war ends compliments of the gubmint.
Keep justifying the "facts" in your mind. I am perfectly OK with acknowledging the shortcomings of the Hellcat and giving props to the Z28 on the track and the Mustang for a nice blend between power and track. But the fact remains as I said early on, you are clearly a GT500 fanboy and your butt is hurt. The arguments against the Hellcat in favor of the GT500 smack of ricer retorts to muscle cars. Perhaps you should consider changing your interests in cars from "muscle cars" to exotics or ricers. They seem to be a much better fit to your "facts" and ideal image of what a car should be.
Herr_Poopschitz
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Have you read about what the engineers did to make it more aero? They sure spent a lot of $ on making it more slippery for it to have the 'aerodynamics of a board'. Guess they should've spent that $ elsewhere, huh? Also, I'll repeat since you missed it the first time and don't seem aware...weight has nothing to do w/ highway fuel efficiency.
...but, but, but then they would put rockets on it that would make it go one meeeellion mph. That's a silly argument.
I don't know you...you stalking me since you claim to know me so well? I'm not a 'fanboy' as you say. The GT500 is the only car to compare it to, so I do. I did notice you turned to name calling, conjecture, and rambling rather than addressing any of the concerns I pointed out, which is quite telling.
themechanic
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70rr-brian
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The aero argument was meant to address the top speed issue. There is only so much you can do with aero and still stay true to your intended retro design. I, unlike you, don't care about the fuel mileage. That is a direct response to your earlier statement that "those who argue you don't buy a car like this for mileage". That's right. If I was in the market for a 700HP car and it was between 3 option and one got 4 more mpg I can assure you THAT would not be a determining factor in my decision nor I suspect pretty much anyone else's. If mileage is on your list of must haves for force fed V8's then you aren't ever going to own one. Seriously that 4mpg would make or break a decision on a car/engine combo like that? And what are you getting at with beating the mileage issue? Is it an "oh look how much better Ford engineers are than Dodge"?
I brought up the 426 looming on the horizon for a couple reasons. One, Dodge is acutely aware of their heritage and are just waiting to drop that bomb. And two, you stated "There's a little part of me that thinks this may be the last of the huge powered blue collar cars. Ford and Chevy seem to be focusing their efforts on 'sports cars' rather than 'muscle cars' like the Challenger for future models." I don't believe for one second Ford or Chevy will tap out and concede to Dodge. Nor do I expect or want them to. Because without their pursuit in this HP war we will never see the 426 again. But even if Dodge did come out with a 1000+ HP 426 with nothing to compare it to the haters would be right there telling us how its MPG per liter is out of line with a motor making 662HP in a Chevy or Ford, how it's road course times suck, etc...
I can assure you I have no interest in stalking you. I am simply engaging in a debate with someone who claims to be something he isn't and that is a fanboy. These same arguments are ALL over the Internet in various forums. It's all a result of primarily Ford guys losing bragging rights in the HP wars and their butts are stinging so they have to do everything they can to put down the Dodge. Simple as that.
I brought up the 426 looming on the horizon for a couple reasons. One, Dodge is acutely aware of their heritage and are just waiting to drop that bomb. And two, you stated "There's a little part of me that thinks this may be the last of the huge powered blue collar cars. Ford and Chevy seem to be focusing their efforts on 'sports cars' rather than 'muscle cars' like the Challenger for future models." I don't believe for one second Ford or Chevy will tap out and concede to Dodge. Nor do I expect or want them to. Because without their pursuit in this HP war we will never see the 426 again. But even if Dodge did come out with a 1000+ HP 426 with nothing to compare it to the haters would be right there telling us how its MPG per liter is out of line with a motor making 662HP in a Chevy or Ford, how it's road course times suck, etc...
I can assure you I have no interest in stalking you. I am simply engaging in a debate with someone who claims to be something he isn't and that is a fanboy. These same arguments are ALL over the Internet in various forums. It's all a result of primarily Ford guys losing bragging rights in the HP wars and their butts are stinging so they have to do everything they can to put down the Dodge. Simple as that.
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Why repeat something that seems invalid in the real world? Weight may have little to do with highway efficiency...if you're talking about a train with steel wheels on a steel rail. But on a car, of course it matters. More weight means increased losses due to hysteresis. If you're on a highway with other traffic and have to adjust your speed, extra weight will consume more fuel for the adjustment. Unless you find a perfectly flat roadway then hills and elevation changes will use more energy in a heavier vehicle.
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