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Pushbutton A727 shavings in pan...

Sir Dodge alot

Sir Dodge alot

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(This is a copy & paste from FCBO)

Hello and well met.

It's been 200 or so miles after I rebuilt the Pushbutton A727 and have dropped the pan multiple times to check the health of the transmission.

The shavings in the pan are silver in color.
(planetary gears/bushings?)

Is the amount of shavings acceptable as "normal" wear?
I'm not seeing the pile growing in size after dropping the pan at least 3 times now.

Still shifts fine, but maybe the shifts are slightly softer? (Softer shifts when up to operating temperature)
(Break-in with the bands on the trans getting accustomed to daily driving status?)

There were fuzzies on the filter end, clutch material?

Appreciate any inputs.
Thanks.

PXL_20240717_211833580.jpg


PXL_20240717_211840248.jpg


PXL_20240717_211828817.jpg
 
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Are you cleaning the pan each time before reinstallation? If so, that is too much wear/damage.
Mike
 
That looks like converter debris to me. Appears to be aluminum. Is it magnetic? Before the current build what was the failure? Same converter now? Was it flushed? Were the cooler and lines flushed? If you had that much metal from a planet it would magnetic and more than likely have a pretty good whine. I've only seen 3 planets fail in 40+ years of building these units.
Doug
 
Maybe some bushing material in there too,my ipad isn’t the best.
 
493 Mike said:
Are you cleaning the pan each time before reinstallation? If so, that is too much wear/damage.
Mike
Click to expand...
No, I didn't want to disturb the "pile" to see whether the shavings pile was indeed growing.

Present day: pan has been cleaned out with some advice from FCBO.

Will drop the pan soon as it's almost time again.
 
dvw said:
That looks like converter debris to me. Appears to be aluminum. Is it magnetic? Before the current build what was the failure? Same converter now? Was it flushed? Were the cooler and lines flushed? If you had that much metal from a planet it would magnetic and more than likely have a pretty good whine. I've only seen 3 planets fail in 40+ years of building these units.
Doug
Click to expand...
Hi there apologies for the long post, TLDR.

Yes I have got a new Torque converter from Hughes performance torque converters.
Part number #19-20.

Regarding the lines, I'm temporarily running rubber high pressure hoses routing from transmission to the radiator then the auxiliary cooler then to an inline filter then back to the transmission return line fitting.

The previous transmission's problem was it started slipping and not going into gear, raise the RPM a bit then it clunks into gear.

Regarding Noises, it sounds the same, before I even took apart the transmission, all nominal.

3 things that does come to mind with the shavings,

- #1 I blueprinted areas in the case where there were casting flash with a file, I was meticulously cleaning to ensure shavings were not left behind, but may have left some residual shavings...

- #2 I have drilled a 1/8 hole in the case to create extra lubrication passage to allow the one way clutch to receive more lube aside from the splash lubrication.

- #3 I have ground down 1 bushing that was (originally) not supporting the rear planetary,
To tighten up the clearance to about 25/30 thousands endplay, I do realize there is no bushing here in the very rear of the planetary, but according to some other sources:

"as long as the endplay is in spec, it won't matter to put in an extra bushing or so"

The debris or some of it, at least looks to be magnetic, but most of it is sitting at the center of the pan.

Hence the rebuild, the original transmission has shifted remarkably for 61 years, impressive.

Present day: trans developed a leak around tailshaft seal and the dipstick tube, will seal it up today, also the transmission is still shifting fine and no weird noises, will drop the pan in the future again.

Some of the rebuild tips were actually from you @dvw I believe the modification with the bushing came from one of your posts, or from the late Carl Munroe's rebuild book.

Thanks.

Below are the pictures where I have added the additional bushing,
(the original planetary is used as an example)
The NEW 4 pinion REAR planetary did not have this thin washer where the original one was in place.

In turn I placed the bushing to take the place of the washer/bushing my finger is pointing at.

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Looks like some fuzz on the pan magnet. There is not that much metal in wear areas of the transmission; mostly aluminum. With metal filings, I would suspect a problem with torque converter.
 
Hello there.
Dave6T4 said:
Looks like some fuzz on the pan magnet. There is not that much metal in wear areas of the transmission; mostly aluminum. With metal filings, I would suspect a problem with torque converter.
Click to expand...
Would you suspect maybe not clean enough workspace which may have allowed shavings from the case blueprinting process?

Thank you for the input,, I'll keep tabs on this matter with dropping the pan and giving the occasional health check.

Also, another question, the planetaries being aluminum (and most parts inside also being aluminum) does this somewhat pinpoint where the shavings could be coming from?

I reckon the pump rotor front & rear being steel would be easy to spot, observing the magnet for shavings maybe?

Thanks.
 
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A friend had his transmission start to go away, but we were at a car show about 125 miles from home, so he decided to drive it as far as he could. he got home with it, but it was really sick by this time. He pulled the transmission and brought it to me, since my side hustle was rebuilding TorqueFlights. I took the 727 apart and the pan had a lot of metal filings in it. The torque converter kinda ate itself up, and the oil pump pumped the filings throught the transmission. Every soft aluminum or brass wear surface was chewed up. I have never seen such a destroyed transmission, before or since. I am still in awe that the car made it all the 125 miles home. Everything in this transmission was junk. we even had to throw the case away. I think I made a "TorkLight" floor lamp for Richard with his case. My message here is, If you think your torque converter is going, don't keep driving your car, because the metal shards will eat your transmission alive.

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