Question regarding bell housing/crank alignment

[biomedtechguy]

As far as the hydraulic vs mechanical... The improvement in hydraulics is the hydraulics... Bigger bore clutch master means less force required to move the bearing and disengage the clutch. It's giving the pedal more leverage, be it mechanical or hydraulics. Same same.

I will NOT give up my 3rd pedal, but I will need some help in the future, because as it is the week of Cruisin the Coast makes my knee hurt between all of the stop and go traffic and walking around.

 

[hangn0ut]

I forgot to add - the bell has to be properly mounted and bolted with all the bolts. Best to have the starter on there too.

As far as the hydraulic vs mechanical... The improvement in hydraulics is the hydraulics... Bigger bore clutch master means less force required to move the bearing and disengage the clutch. It's giving the pedal more leverage, be it mechanical or hydraulics. Same same.

Sorry! Bigger bore master requires more force. And it will move the piston at the working end farther as it displaces more fluid. Check the piston size on your engine hoist compared to the piston on the ram. Not much movement but plenty of power. Mechanical or hydraulic leveraging,either one will require the same force input to get a certain amount of work done.

 

[hangn0ut]

Got a question. Been a while since I've played with a conventional clutch. That was a clutchflite in my 69 dart. Do the throw out bearings still require free play? Or are they the type that stay in contact with the pressure plate? Just curious.

 

[miller]

Do the throw out bearings still require free play?

Been too many years since I've fooled with one, but pretty sure free play is needed, or the clutch will never release.
Always wanted to try out a clutchflite!

 

[Daves69]

...........Do the throw out bearings still require free play? Or are they the type that stay in contact with the pressure plate? Just curious.

The bearing needs to be clear of the cover fingers or the bearing will be toast fairly quick.

 

[hangn0ut]

The bearing needs to be clear of the cover fingers or the bearing will be toast fairly quick.

I hear ya. But I remember something about a newer type of bearing, used on new cars, that had no free play. No adjustment and a "nicer" pedal feel for new car buyers. Guess they were a no go for performance use.

 

[hangn0ut]

Been too many years since I've fooled with one, but pretty sure free play is needed, or the clutch will never release.
Always wanted to try out a clutchflite!

Clutchflite have some issues. But they are a blast to run. The shifts are harsh enough that I used the clutch to shift when driving thru the pits or on the return road.

 

[moper]

Sorry! Bigger bore master requires more force. And it will move the piston at the working end farther as it displaces more fluid. Check the piston size on your engine hoist compared to the piston on the ram. Not much movement but plenty of power. Mechanical or hydraulic leveraging,either one will require the same force input to get a certain amount of work done.

I routinely get that backwards... Regardless the hydraulic system, when designed by the right person (obviously not me) will have less pedal effort because of the extra leverage from hydraulic processes. Just like moving the pivot points on the pedal or Z bar to get more leverage.

 

[hangn0ut]

I routinely get that backwards... Regardless the hydraulic system, when designed by the right person (obviously not me) will have less pedal effort because of the extra leverage from hydraulic processes. Just like moving the pivot points on the pedal or Z bar to get more leverage.

I agree. But along with the extra leverage comes more travel needed. Do you really want longer/slower travel?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Performance and Physiological effects of hydraulic clutches =
MORE INFORMATION, experiences please!

 

[moper]

I agree. But along with the extra leverage comes more travel needed. Do you really want longer/slower travel?

I'll take longer and slower every time. I'd take it on a clutch too! LOL

 

[hangn0ut]

At my age I hate to admit it but I have to agree. LOL. The speed shift,it's a dying art.....

 

[64SF]

Checked the alignment with a dial indicator (several times) and here are the numbers....

At 12:00.......0
At 3:00.......10
At 6:00.......28
At 9:00.......17

From the above post from members it appears I'm out of spec and will need to order offset dowels. I'm new at this alignment process ...what offsets do I need to order. Looks like the RobbMc are the easiest to work with...thanks.

 

[hangn0ut]

So your bell is 28 thou to high relative to the crank. A bit odd. You need half that, 14 thou offset, to move the bell down. Toward the 6 o clock. 28 was the highest reading? Needs to move towards the highest reading.

 

[64SF]

So your bell is 28 thou to high relative to the crank. A bit odd. You need half that, 14 thou offset, to move the bell down. Toward the 6 o clock. 28 was the highest reading? Needs to move towards the highest reading.

Thank you for responding....

Yes 28 was the highest that was measured at the 6 o'clock position.

What about the 3 and 9 o'clock position? The measurement at 3 was 10 and 17 at 9.
As an FYI the bell housing is an aluminum one I bought from Brewers. Not a factory manufactured.

 

[Daves69]

As an FYI the bell housing is an aluminum one I bought from Brewers. Not a factory manufactured.

All mounting bolts were in and torqued to spec when checked?
When you get your current dowel pins removed, you might also consider re-fitting and indicating the bell again to determine if the bolt holes will allow the necessary amount of shift.

 

[64SF]

All mounting bolts were in and torqued to spec when checked?
When you get your current dowel pins removed, you might also consider re-fitting and indicating the bell again to determine if the bolt holes will allow the necessary amount of shift.

Yes all mounting bolts in and torqued, starter still installed. (engine still in car).
Will be pulling the bell housing within the next couple of days.

 

[hangn0ut]

Your 3 and 6 numbers will change for the better.

 

[64SF]

Resolved the alignment issue. Ordered offset dowels from RobbMc...these dowels are high quality and worked great. Took a little while making adjustments to bring the alignment within specs.

Didn’t do this with the first 4 speed I installed and had some issues with shifting and some internal vibrations develop.

Hopefully get the replacement (I’ve rebuilt) in this week and will post the results.

ADVICE TO EVERYONE INSTALLING OR CONVERTING TO MANUAL...DO THE ALIGNMENT BEFORE INSTALLING I was surprised how much the alignment was out.