R134a. Has anyone else been hoarding it?

[Tony Tee]

I've been buying a few cans here and there , mostly from walmart. I know it's almost winter, but in florida we still need it. I guess it's being discontinued? Or they just won't let the general public buy it anymore? Google said its a ozone depleting gas? But so was r12 . Now you can buy a substitute that's extremely flammable? Not good , I guess they want our cars to burn like EVs
Which isn't good . All that toxic gas from burning any vehicle is not good either. Crazy world.

 

[AR67GTX]

I’m still sitting on 6 cans of R12 for my GTX. After I rebuilt the AC system and charged it over 20 years ago it hasn’t needed any.

 

[HEMIB]

I use the cans of freeze spray 134A about 400 grams a tin from the electronics store filled 2 years ago still freezing

 

[Cop car wagon]

Yes. Washington went full commie, so I bought a 30lb tank.
Still got cans of 134a and r12

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I currently have five full 30# cylinders and two partial cylinders...

 

[Lefty71]

I think 134a will be available into the 30's, and 410a as well.

 

[YY1]

Rural King has at least one, sometimes 2-3 sales a year.
I get a few cans then.
Stash is about 8 cans.

 

[threewood]

r12 is a chloroflourocarbon (cfc) and r134 is a hydroflourocarbon (hfc). CFC's are ozone depleting refrigerants. HFCs are greenhouse gases, while they don't deplete ozone they can supposedly cause global warming.

Newer auto refrigerants like r1234 are mildly flammable and expensive. Propane is an excellent refrigerant except is is highly flammable and cheap.

It's dumb for the government to continue to phase out refrigerants because all it does is cost the consumer more money when repairs are needed.

I have my 608 universal and 609 automotive certs so I have a couple tanks on hand.

 

[threewood]

I think 134a will be available into the 30's, and 410a as well.

I agree but it's going to keep getting more expensive. My worry is the availability of r410 equipment like condensers and compressors. I'd save a hell of a lot of money fixing my stuff then having to get all new because they stopped making r410 compatible components.

 

[OneWheelPeel]

Didn’t even occur to me that I should start grabbing an occasional can from FLAPS so I’m not high and dry down the road.

 

[Demonic]

I have a 125 lb of 134. I hate moving it.

 

[69hemibeep]

Its only bad for the ozone when the patent runs out and others can make it cheaper

 

[440 4 speed]

I have a small tank and some cans, that I won't need.

 

[RJRENTON]

A few years back, the best "industrial-commercial" refrigerant, along with some original home A/C systems (Bryant and the old Servel gas referators specifically) used anhydrouus ammonia (NH3) as the refrigerant.....it was relatively inexpensive, worked extremely well as it's boiling point/evaporation point is shown below.
Anhydrous ammonia has many properties, including:

• Chemical formula: NH3
• Composition: 82% nitrogen and 18% hydrogen
• Physical state: Colorless, non-flammable liquefied gas
• Odor: Pungent and suffocating
• Boiling point -28°F (-33.35°C)
• Density: 0.5967 (air = 1)
• Solubility: Soluble in water
  Hygroscopicity: Readily absorbs moisture
  Alkaline properties: Has alkaline properties
  Corrosive: Is corrosive

Anhydrous ammonia is used in refrigeration systems because the rapid evaporation of the liquid cools the surrounding area. It is shipped as a liquid under its own vapor pressure. it is not ozone depleting nor greenhouse gas contributor. It has very similar characteristics as R12.....dichlotodifluromethane....or CCl2F2......where chlorine gas and fluorine gas molicule displace the hydrogen gas molicules...as in methane gas CH4.....why was anhydrouus ammonia not used as an automotive refrigerant??......some "do gooder" decided it was harmful to humans in the event of a leak or accident.......yet we use anhydrouus ammonia as a crop fertilizer throughout the agriculture industry, applied in gaseous form, by the acre.......it's cheap and very effective and there is no runoff polluting the water table as in fertilizers in granularform......why is the ok to use on the farm, but not ok to use as a medium temperature refrigerant??? The old do as I say not as I do rule..applies....????....just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON

 

[LowBikeMike]

AA is not cheap and very hazardous. Just ask the family involved in the accident earlier this year down the road from you in TTown. Can't imagine a shadetree opening up a system full of AA with no protection.

 

[VANDAN]

I've got 4 stored away. Maybe someday I'll have a car with A/C !!!

 

[RJRENTON]

AA is not cheap and very hazardous. Just ask the family involved in the accident earlier this year down the road from you in TTown. Can't imagine a shadetree opening up a system full of AA with no protection.

I'm aware of the story. Around the Decatur area, there are literally 100's farmers, both soy bean and corn farms, where anhydrouus ammonia is used exclusively as a fertilizer. The 500 gallon pressure vessels are towed behind the plows, or disc harrows when the soil is worked b4 planting. The smaller 500 gallon vessels are refilled from the master 10,000 gallon vessels at the bulk storage facility, where liquid anhydrouus ammonia is pumped into the smaller vessels as a liquid. The media made an issue of the accident....when the tank truck overturned, one of the filling valves was torn off, allowing the liquid anhydrouus ammonia (liquid under pressure) to spill, where it almost instantly boiled at atmospheric pressure as a gas to the air in extremely high concentrations.....the victims were suffocated because the oxygen in the air was displaced. Anhydrouus ammonia is an inexpensive fertilizer that has been used for years without issue. True, the accident resulted in unfortunate loss of life...but it is a very effective refrigerant and fertilizer and an intermediary in additional chemical production. I live within 5 miles of an anhydrouus ammonia bulk storage/refilling facility and have NEVER smelled or had an issue with this operation. An automotive refrigerant system, the quantity is 2-3 pounds total, if Anhydrouus ammonia were to be used...a negligible quantity compared to a bulk storage facility.....a tank truck volume could be 10,000+ pounds. Personally, I have no issues.......I have worked for ADM Glycols where we manufactured 100% pure Hydrogen gas (H2) at high pressure from natural gas and steam...and I'm totally familiar with working with dangerous gases and with adequate safety practices, there is nothing to be afraid of....but common sense and respect must be adhered to......just my opinion.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Photon440]

I'm aware of the story. Around the Decatur area, there are literally 100's farmers, both soy bean and corn farms, where anhydrouus ammonia is used exclusively as a fertilizer. The 500 gallon pressure vessels are towed behind the plows, or disc harrows when the soil is worked b4 planting. The smaller 500 gallon vessels are refilled from the master 10,000 gallon vessels at the bulk storage facility, where liquid anhydrouus ammonia is pumped into the smaller vessels as a liquid. The media made an issue of the accident....when the tank truck overturned, one of the filling valves was torn off, allowing the liquid anhydrouus ammonia (liquid under pressure) to spill, where it almost instantly boiled at atmospheric pressure as a gas to the air in extremely high concentrations.....the victims were suffocated because the oxygen in the air was displaced. Anhydrouus ammonia is an inexpensive fertilizer that has been used for years without issue. True, the accident resulted in unfortunate loss of life...but it is a very effective refrigerant and fertilizer and an intermediary in additional chemical production. I live within 5 miles of an anhydrouus ammonia bulk storage/refilling facility and have NEVER smelled or had an issue with this operation. An automotive refrigerant system, the quantity is 2-3 pounds total, if Anhydrouus ammonia were to be used...a negligible quantity compared to a bulk storage facility.....a tank truck volume could be 10,000+ pounds. Personally, I have no issues.......I have worked for ADM Glycols where we manufactured 100% pure Hydrogen gas (H2) at high pressure from natural gas and steam...and I'm totally familiar with working with dangerous gases and with adequate safety practices, there is nothing to be afraid of....but common sense and respect must be adhered to......just my opinion.....
BOB RENTON

This is from a town in B.C.. 55 homes had to be evacuated, three people died from an ammonia refrigerant leak for an ice arena in 2017.

 

[LowBikeMike]

I'm aware of the story. Around the Decatur area, there are literally 100's farmers, both soy bean and corn farms, where anhydrouus ammonia is used exclusively as a fertilizer. The 500 gallon pressure vessels are towed behind the plows, or disc harrows when the soil is worked b4 planting. The smaller 500 gallon vessels are refilled from the master 10,000 gallon vessels at the bulk storage facility, where liquid anhydrouus ammonia is pumped into the smaller vessels as a liquid. The media made an issue of the accident....when the tank truck overturned, one of the filling valves was torn off, allowing the liquid anhydrouus ammonia (liquid under pressure) to spill, where it almost instantly boiled at atmospheric pressure as a gas to the air in extremely high concentrations.....the victims were suffocated because the oxygen in the air was displaced. Anhydrouus ammonia is an inexpensive fertilizer that has been used for years without issue. True, the accident resulted in unfortunate loss of life...but it is a very effective refrigerant and fertilizer and an intermediary in additional chemical production. I live within 5 miles of an anhydrouus ammonia bulk storage/refilling facility and have NEVER smelled or had an issue with this operation. An automotive refrigerant system, the quantity is 2-3 pounds total, if Anhydrouus ammonia were to be used...a negligible quantity compared to a bulk storage facility.....a tank truck volume could be 10,000+ pounds. Personally, I have no issues.......I have worked for ADM Glycols where we manufactured 100% pure Hydrogen gas (H2) at high pressure from natural gas and steam...and I'm totally familiar with working with dangerous gases and with adequate safety practices, there is nothing to be afraid of....but common sense and respect must be adhered to......just my opinion.....
BOB RENTON

Well aware of the uses, as we apply around 100 wagons a year on corn ground. No, its not cheap, but it is effective. In the real world application it is very dangerous. Even with a thorough bleeding process there is plenty of residual gas to harm when working under a toolbar replacing sheared shank bolts.

 

[bandit67]

As I understand things, the Dupont family held the patent on R12 and patents are good for about 20 years. So, it became 'harmful" and America replaced it with R134A, also owned by that family. I suspect that 20 year patent has or is about to expire. Can we guess who might own the replacement patent. Someone was just charged with importing/smuggling and selling a refrigerant from Mexico, not sure what it was for, autos or home/business units. I was told that most of our 'banned' refrigerants are still made and widely used in other countries, not sure if that is true. Folks just want to be cool and will pay a large price to do so.