Re-torque of Edelbrock aluminum heads

[GreatCuda]

I recently bought a set of new Edelbrock heads for my '74 440 Cuda and I've had some adventures getting the stock exhaust manifold studs and sleeve nuts out of the stock exhaust manifolds.
The rear most sleeve nut on the driver's side exhaust manifold has caused me to have to remove the driver's side motor mount bolt and jack the engine up to get the sleeve nut head away from the steering column far enough to get a wrench on it.
I have to remove both exhaust manifolds completely to get to the lower/outer head bolts on both heads.
I notice that Edelbrock says in their installation instructions that the heads need to be re-torqued after initial startup and cool down.
This is going to entail getting those bi*tch kitty manifolds back out again to do that.
Does anyone know of a work around to avoid having to do that all over again?

 

[RemCharger]

What kind of head gaskets did you use

 

[toolmanmike]

What do Edelbrock's instructions say?

 

[Orig69]

The short sleeve nut on the rear of the drivers side exhaust manifold can be removed with a 1/4 inch drive ratchet and 9/16 socket without removing the motor mount bolt.

 

[Kern Dog]

I never did. Fel Pro gaskets. No troubles.

 

[GreatCuda]

What kind of head gaskets did you use

I have Felpro 1009, have not used them yet.

 

[GreatCuda]

What do Edelbrock's instructions say?

This is what they send along with their heads in EDL5090.pdf . I called Edelbrock and woke them up and they said much the same thing.

Notes: 1) Rocker shaft hold-down studs, nuts and washers for 2 places
marked (S) in each head are supplied in this kit. 2) Double nut both
studs and screw them in until they reach the bottom. Install rocker shaft,
factory concave washer and hard washer supplied with this kit. Apply
30W oil to fine threads and under nuts and washers and torque nuts to
25 ft./lbs. A head bolt re-torque is recommended after initial start-up
and cool-down (allow 2-3 hours for adequate cooling).

 

[toolmanmike]

This is what they send along with their heads in EDL5090.pdf . I called Edelbrock and woke them up and they said much the same thing.

Notes: 1) Rocker shaft hold-down studs, nuts and washers for 2 places
marked (S) in each head are supplied in this kit. 2) Double nut both
studs and screw them in until they reach the bottom. Install rocker shaft,
factory concave washer and hard washer supplied with this kit. Apply
30W oil to fine threads and under nuts and washers and torque nuts to
25 ft./lbs. A head bolt re-torque is recommended after initial start-up
and cool-down (allow 2-3 hours for adequate cooling).

There's your answer from them. The gasket mfg. may say something different if different than what Ed. recommended as would the bolt/head stud manufacturer. It sure wouldn't hurt to recheck them.

 

[GreatCuda]

The short sleeve nut on the rear of the drivers side exhaust manifold can be removed with a 1/4 inch drive ratchet and 9/16 socket without removing the motor mount bolt.

I took the other sleeve nuts and studs out of the other (passenger side) manifold and it was like they were epoxied together. I tried to get them apart to be able to use them again. I used penetrating oil, putting them in a vise and using a breaker bar, heating them, banging on them, you name it, not coming apart.
I have to jack the engine up to get it(sleeve nut) away from the steering column to get the sleeve nut and the stud out as one piece.
I already bought a complete new sleeve nut and stud/nut kit but that doesn't help me with S.O.B. I have in there now.

 

[GreatCuda]

There's your answer from them. The gasket mfg. may say something different if different than what Ed. recommended as would the bolt/head stud manufacturer. It sure wouldn't hurt to recheck them.

Can you clarify what you mean by "rechecking them?" It's all a moot point if I still have to get a torque wrench on those head bolts.

 

[toolmanmike]

Can you clarify what you mean by "rechecking them?" It's all a moot point if I still have to get a torque wrench on those head bolts.

Recheck/retorque. They are already torqued so If I recheck them I set the wrench at the recommended torque and go through the sequence once.

 

[Bee1971]

Fel Pro 8519 PT1 Perma Torque

Isn’t that a basis for those head gaskets - No Re Torque required

Anyways five summers now with those head gaskets and Edelbrock Heads , zero issues

 

[Orig69]

I took the other sleeve nuts and studs out of the other (passenger side) manifold and it was like they were epoxied together. I tried to get them apart to be able to use them again. I used penetrating oil, putting them in a vise and using a breaker bar, heating them, banging on them, you name it, not coming apart.
I have to jack the engine up to get it(sleeve nut) away from the steering column to get the sleeve nut and the stud out as one piece.
I already bought a complete new sleeve nut and stud/nut kit but that doesn't help me with S.O.B. I have in there now.

The stud and the sleeve nut should not be frozen after starting the engine just once, I would use a thread chaser on the sleeve nuts and studs before installing them again. The shortest sleeve nut is used next to the steering column. If the studs are too long the sleeve nuts will bottom out and get jammed on the stud.

 

[GreatCuda]

Recheck/retorque. They are already torqued so If I recheck them I set the wrench at the recommended torque and go through the sequence once.

I think I have to re-whine. The iron heads are on the car now. The last frozen sleeve nut and stud is making it a miserable bastard getting the stock driver's side exhaust manifold off. This is because the sleeve nut and stud is like they are welded together. The last one is right up against the steering column and trying to get a wrench on it has been really interesting and not fun at all.
I think there have even been some new and very sincere swear words invented.
When you get the socket on the sleeve nut even with or without a universal, it's almost impossible to get the ratchet, wrench or breaker bar that turns the socket onto the socket also.
Once you do get both of them on there, when you turn the socket, the nut comes off towards the steering column such that you can no longer get the wrench off the socket or the socket off the sleeve nut or the sleeve nut and stud out of the manifold.
We tried dropping the steering column down, no bueno, wouldn't move down out of the way.
Now, we have to take one motor mount bolt out on the driver's side and jack the motor up to get the last sleeve nut and stud (unit) away from the steering column and out of the manifold to remove the manifold.
What I was basically asking was, is there a work around for having to put the exhaust manifolds back on the engine with the new heads, start the engine once, let it cool down and have to take the exhaust manifolds off again to get to the (outside the valve cover) lower outside head bolts and re-torque them like the Edelbrock installation manual says.
I guess what is bothering me is, they put literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of iron heads on these 440s and I don't think they ever had to take the exhaust manifolds off of all those engines after first or initial start up just to re-torque the heads.
Looking for any suggestions.

 

[RemCharger]

To make a long story short; everybody that retorques your headbolts put your hand up.
Should have been a poll topic.

 

[toolmanmike]

I think I have to re-whine. The iron heads are on the car now. The last frozen sleeve nut and stud is making it a miserable bastard getting the stock driver's side exhaust manifold off. This is because the sleeve nut and stud is like they are welded together. The last one is right up against the steering column and trying to get a wrench on it has been really interesting and not fun at all.
I think there have even been some new and very sincere swear words invented.
When you get the socket on the sleeve nut even with or without a universal, it's almost impossible to get the ratchet, wrench or breaker bar that turns the socket onto the socket also.
Once you do get both of them on there, when you turn the socket, the nut comes off towards the steering column such that you can no longer get the wrench off the socket or the socket off the sleeve nut or the sleeve nut and stud out of the manifold.
We tried dropping the steering column down, no bueno, wouldn't move down out of the way.
Now, we have to take one motor mount bolt out on the driver's side and jack the motor up to get the last sleeve nut and stud (unit) away from the steering column and out of the manifold to remove the manifold.
What I was basically asking was, is there a work around for having to put the exhaust manifolds back on the engine with the new heads, start the engine once, let it cool down and have to take the exhaust manifolds off again to get to the (outside the valve cover) lower outside head bolts and re-torque them like the Edelbrock installation manual says.
I guess what is bothering me is, they put literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of iron heads on these 440s and I don't think they ever had to take the exhaust manifolds off of all those engines after first or initial start up just to re-torque the heads.
Looking for any suggestions.

If it's that much of a pain and all is well with your engine don't worry about it.

 

[GreatCuda]

The stud and the sleeve nut should not be frozen after starting the engine just once, I would use a thread chaser on the sleeve nuts and studs before installing them again. The shortest sleeve nut is used next to the steering column. If the studs are too long the sleeve nuts will bottom out and get jammed on the stud.

One thing I failed to mention. The engine, heads and exhaust manifolds were assembled in 1992. I did not use anti seize like I am in 2022 with the new sleeve nuts and stud kit I bought for the engine.
Edelbrock claims they added .125" material to the interior of the heads at the back of the stud holes so that the studs are not screwed directly into the water jacket like the old ones in the iron heads.
I have measured the depth or bottom of the blind helicoiled stud hole in the aluminum heads to the exhaust mating surface and it is .850". I am making sure the length of the stud with the manifold flange and sleeve nut combo is not more than that. If it is, I'll just grind the excess off the end of the stud before assembly.

 

[GreatCuda]

Fel Pro 8519 PT1 Perma Torque

Isn’t that a basis for those head gaskets - No Re Torque required

Anyways five summers now with those head gaskets and Edelbrock Heads , zero issues

That's both interesting and useful. Never heard of those gaskets. Will check them out. Thanks. That's the kind of info I was looking for.

 

[6872n73]

Have you tried removing the steering column?

 

[GreatCuda]

Have you tried removing the steering column?

I thought about doing that and tried it but all in all it was even more of a pain.
I did decide to try lower the column by loosening it inside the car by unbolting it from the dash brackets and the through firewall plate(s) and it hardly moved and not enough to help.
I recently put a new power steering box in the car and a new coupler sleeve and getting that big roll pin both into the coupler and through the groove in the spline was a bi*tch so I decided to just take the one motor mount bolt out and jack the engine up an inch or so.
Getting a roll pin and pin punch in there and being able to hit it with a hammer is harder than going with taking out the single motor mount bolt and jack route.