Rebuilt 727 Giving Me a Headache

[Mason]

Doug is correct about the lockup clutch unless it is dragging. Another culprit is the overrunning clutch failed, jammed, or not sure on this trans but these can be put in backwards resulting in a lockup of the tail shaft. Regarding the engine, if the torque is working you should be able to feel if the the engine has power or not, but timing checks etc are worthwhile to isolate.

I dropped the pan of the tranny last night and found a lot of metal flakes in the bottom of it, could the bands being tight cause this much? I probably have less that 5 miles on this transmission from just messing around trying to get it in first gear.

 

[Mason]

Doug is correct about the lockup clutch unless it is dragging. Another culprit is the overrunning clutch failed, jammed, or not sure on this trans but these can be put in backwards resulting in a lockup of the tail shaft. Regarding the engine, if the torque is working you should be able to feel if the the engine has power or not, but timing checks etc are worthwhile to isolate.

Yeah my engine in park and neutral is hitting 7 rpm easily but when I put it in gear it is a completely different feeling. I want to do an adjustment on the bands and fill it back up but im worried at how much flakes I found in my pan.

 

[dvw]

First what your seeing in the pan doesn't bother me much. Could be from the lines, cooler, or even left over in the trans. Not knowing the timing sends a red flag for sure. It could start and run fine at 10 retarded. The real issue I see is more than likely this; less than 8-1 compression, [email protected] cam, single plane intake, mechanical carb, 1800 converter and 2.76? gear. There is your answer right there. That combination is severely mismatched. Timing, rear gear, converter will help. But if its got the stock compression height pistons you'll be lucky to be 8-1. This combo needs more than that to be effective. I've been down this trail before. 8-1 360, .509 hydraulic, 650 mechanical carb. At least mine had a LD 340 dual plane and a 4 speed. I can sum mine up in one word, DOG.
Doug

 

[Superbeedad]

Those dark pieces in the pan look like clutch disc friction material and the shiny pieces could be plate material. A rebuilt tranny and a new torque should be clean but the cooler and cooler lines should have been flushed out. Bands don’t typically flake apart .. they burn and wear but finer than actual flakes. I would be concerned. Large shiny piece.. is that metal?

 

[Superbeedad]

Does the fluid smell burnt at all? Warped discs can jam up where the clutch can’t release .. causing it fight with another member.

 

[Mason]

First what your seeing in the pan doesn't bother me much. Could be from the lines, cooler, or even left over in the trans. Not knowing the timing sends a red flag for sure. It could start and run fine at 10 retarded. The real issue I see is more than likely this; less than 8-1 compression, [email protected] cam, single plane intake, mechanical carb, 1800 converter and 2.76? gear. There is your answer right there. That combination is severely mismatched. Timing, rear gear, converter will help. But if its got the stock compression height pistons you'll be lucky to be 8-1. This combo needs more than that to be effective. I've been down this trail before. 8-1 360, .509 hydraulic, 650 mechanical carb. At least mine had a LD 340 dual plane and a 4 speed. I can sum mine up in one word, DOG.
Doug

I did find some particles that were larger than usual and actually look like metal fragment. Sadly the car still feels the same after i adjusted my bands (front and rear). I would hope it is just a dog at this point but I just have a bad feeling about the tranny.

 

[Mason]

Those dark pieces in the pan look like clutch disc friction material and the shiny pieces could be plate material. A rebuilt tranny and a new torque should be clean but the cooler and cooler lines should have been flushed out. Bands don’t typically flake apart .. they burn and wear but finer than actual flakes. I would be concerned. Large shiny piece.. is that metal?

Yeah I was expecting the same thing too, I wouldn't expect a rebuilt tranny to be having this much material released to the bottom of the pan. And yeah there was one piece of metal in the pan that I found and another piece about the size of my fingernail when I was fishing through my trans fluid with a magnet. Pretty disappointed with the transmission at this point.

 

[Mason]

Does the fluid smell burnt at all? Warped discs can jam up where the clutch can’t release .. causing it fight with another member.

The fluid didn't really smell burnt at all it had a sweet odor still, but at the same time I have probably put this car on the street less than 15 times (5 miles at the most) so I wouldn't expect much happened

 

[66 Sat]

Has the engine been run before with the last transmission or is it fresh like the 727?
Reading through this and seeing your responses about changing valve bodies, converters, the whole transmission etc before properly diagnosing what the issue is, leads me to think you need to take the car to someone who knows what they doing to help you. This forum can obviously give some useful guidance, but you're jumping around all over the place with no resolution and not following the advice.
Find a local garage that knows old school cars and take it to them for a look.

 

[Mason]

Has the engine been run before with the last transmission or is it fresh like the 727?
Reading through this and seeing your responses about changing valve bodies, converters, the whole transmission etc before properly diagnosing what the issue is, leads me to think you need to take the car to someone who knows what they doing to help you. This forum can obviously give some useful guidance, but you're jumping around all over the place with no resolution and not following the advice.
Find a local garage that knows old school cars and take it to them for a look.

Alright I have taken the advice, I just did the front and rear bands with no luck. The things still feels like its dragging so thats obviously not the solution, and my 904 I had on it previously was the original trans which was trash to begin with (wouldnt go in gear) so I hope you can see my frustration now. Im a highschool kid who has put 3+ years of his life into a car that still refuses to run properly, keep in mind its my only form of transportation. So yes my mind is all over the place.

 

[Mason]

Has the engine been run before with the last transmission or is it fresh like the 727?
Reading through this and seeing your responses about changing valve bodies, converters, the whole transmission etc before properly diagnosing what the issue is, leads me to think you need to take the car to someone who knows what they doing to help you. This forum can obviously give some useful guidance, but you're jumping around all over the place with no resolution and not following the advice.
Find a local garage that knows old school cars and take it to them for a look.

Not trying to get in an argument over this but I have to do one thing at a time, I only posted this a few days ago not a month and the majority ruled rear and front bands. So thats exactly what I did.

 

[66 Sat]

Mate I'm not busting your balls, just trying to help. 6 months ago there was a 5 page thread when you were trying to fix your steering, front bushes and ball joints which went a similar way. Did that ever get resolved?
I've been young with no money too, now I'm a bit older and I'm imagining my dad talking to me back then, giving me the advice I'm giving you. If you find a friendly local garage they may take a look for a minimal charge, but at least you'll have a definitive answer.

 

[Mason]

Mate I'm not busting your balls, just trying to help. 6 months ago there was a 5 page thread when you were trying to fix your steering, front bushes and ball joints which went a similar way. Did that ever get resolved?
I've been young with no money too, now I'm a bit older and I'm imagining my dad talking to me back then, giving me the advice I'm giving you. If you find a friendly local garage they may take a look for a minimal charge, but at least you'll have a definitive answer.

Yeah I understand you and I appreciate your help, just very frustrated with this car and the money I've poured into it. I did get the steering resolved by the way, the shop I took it to had me replace everything besides the lower control arms and it took some of the slop away. I will find another shop to take a look. The one I had the steering done at was also supposed to fix my transmission problems but I paid for labor that didn't fix it so I decided to give it my best shot at doing it myself.

 

[66 Sat]

The more you do yourself the more you are learning, so that's a good thing. Are there any members in the Houston area that can take a look maybe?

 

[Mason]

The more you do yourself the more you are learning, so that's a good thing. Are there any members in the Houston area that can take a look maybe?

Not sure, i do know a guy that has a superbee in Pearland (far ways off) but other than that I dont know who else could help. I just really need this thing up and going as soon as I can.

 

[66 Sat]

Start a new thread entitled "Help needed in Houston Area" - give the brief details, and see who replies. A carton of beer for their help, everyone's a winner.

 

[Mason]

Start a new thread entitled "Help needed in Houston Area" - give the brief details, and see who replies. A carton of beer for their help, everyone's a winner.

Thats a good idea, and very true haha. I'll post something tomorrow when I can.

 

[dvw]

I build quite a few transmissions. Had them apart very early in their life. It's not uncommon to see stuff in the pan. Also mentioned that the rear band being tight couldn't bind the the trans up in 1st as its already applied in 1st. Reread about your engine combo. You still haven't looked at the timing to rule that out. I wasn't being sarcastic about the engine/converter/axle combination. You may not want to hear it, but it's the truth. You tell me. Stock compression pistons? Which exact cam? I'm betting this one? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10200507lk/make/dodge
Doug

 

[66 Sat]

If that is the cam that's in the engine no wonder it won't run properly with those diff gears, torque converter, intake and the low compression. Look at the specs and the requirements, it doesn't even begin to make power until 3,500 rpms.
On my poly it was fully rebuilt for what I thought was decent street performance with 10.5:1 compression, forged crank, ported heads, windage tray, you get my drift, all the parts I thought I needed for decent performance. Problem was I had a Weiand single plane manifold that sucked a ton of torque below 3,000 rpm and a 700 cfm double pumper Holley that was too much carb.
With 3.23 gears and a standard converter the throttle had to be gently pressed until 3,000 rpm or the engine would bog down. A switch to a factory 4 barrel intake and a 600 Holley vac sec made a huge difference, but it's still not perfect. It's only a 318 in a b body, so it's never going to be a tire fryer.
What Doug is saying is the truth. It looks like like you have a combo that is totally mismatched. I recall you have big wheels on your car too? 17"? I wonder what the total diameter is of your rear wheels and tires? If you have a big diameter plus the 2.76 gears it just won't have the low down torque to even get it moving.