Redoing 1971 Road Runner suggestion welcome.

[Lazarus]

Hey guys. I've been a long time lurker and now I'm finally redoing my mopar. Any suggestions for must haves for a mainly street occasional strip car? My car is a Tor Red AC car with white interior and power windows, but no power steering or brakes. Will probably upgrade steering and brakes and wiring. Also, I have a certificate for 65% off from my first order from painless, so will probably be getting my wiring from there. Anything else I should get from them and do any of you guys need to get anything from them?
As you can see, it is a much cleaner start than most have to work with, but it is just not what i want from it. I have already reine the 440 and made a 505 stroker and rebuilt 727. Brakes are manual drums, yuck. Lol Thanks, Chris

 

[tallhair]

That's a sweet 71 Lazarus! You should head over to the welcome wagon forum and photo bomb an introduction. Interior too. Your color combo is really nice.

 

[Lazarus]

Btw, this is a numbers matching car with a 383 and 727. I pulled them out and sat aside so I could play with this and not hurt them. My thoughts are to make a nice retro rod out of it since although matching numbers, I do not have a build sheet with the car. How much does that hurt the resale value anyway? We are doing a full frame off on this car(causing a tight budget for any mod), so if we do stumble upon the build sheet during disassembly, plans may change to putting it all back stock. Any suggestions to make this car a dependable daily driver would be nice. Even though I won't be driving it everyday, I want it as dependable as a new car so I can hop in and go when I want. I have a Petronics ignition to install, will probably go with a modern alternator(any easy and cheap suggestions), need to fix slow window motors(ideas), tach needs to be made to work with new ignition(need to research this as I'm not an electrician), and would like to get rid of amp meters and go with voltage regulators(how hard is this when the dash is out). Finally I need suggestions for door and trim panels on a budget. Since build sheet was not in the usual places and I doubt I can find them anywhere, I am not looking for original style interior grain or style etc. Is there any custom shops you guys know of I can send off the door panels to be recovered that would cost less than buying repops? If not, where is the cheapest place to get repops from? Stereo will probably just be an updated original, but would like to have ideas of where to put speakers to make it sound good and not look thrown together. I am certainly NOT concerned about making this a bass thumper or any of that nonsense. Just want a normal radio I can listen to. Frame connectors, torque boxes and suspension rebuild are a must and will be moving springs and minitub if necessary to accomodate 16" or 17" 335 or larger tires and rims(any suggestions... Ford mustang rims maybe.). Everything interior will have to be prioritized and fit in the budget or will have to do without. Car will be dark blue with maybe a slight purple color shift, so kinda like a deep blue plumb crazy. I would like to paint on the strobe stripes if I can find a stencil kit and make them white with reflective characteristics like the original strobe stickers(ideas there?). Thanks for taking the time to look. I know I put a lot out there, but I am hoping if some of everyone can add a little info to each of these things, it may give me some insight or open my eyes a bit. I have been reading up and can tell there are a lot of talented people here that do get things done well with small budgets and that is what I need. I don't want to cut corners, but I can't afford to just drop it off and start ordering from catalogs without researching prices etc. thanks again and sorry for all the run on sentences etc. lol. I am at work on break and just letting my mind flow so to speak. Ttyl, Chris

 

[Lazarus]

Thanks Tallhair. Will do.

 

[moparmarks]

Nice car. Does it have the fender tag? Myself I hate seeing you cut a #'s RR but it is your car. Mini-tubing and in-board springs will hurt the value. I've cut and built several Restro-mods, Mopar, Ford and Chevy. Just saying.
The Painless harness is nothing like the original harness and is not all that painless. I use them in Hotrods and Restro-mods. Just used some in a 78 Ford F250 highboy and a 55 Ford F100 hotrod. You'll need to splice on your old sockets and such. If your doing a bunch of mods then they work good. Plan on doing something with the bulkhead hole in the firewall as the painless fuse box is way different.

 

[Lazarus]

Thanks for the heads up. Any suggestions that would be around the same price as a half priced painless? I do have the fender tags, but no build sheet. I figured that would hurt it more than the tubbing would. With the 505, I NEED more rubber. How big can I go without tubbing? Suggestions?

 

[Bruzilla]

There are two phrases that should never be found together when describing a project car, and that's "frame off" and "tight budget". I can't tell you how many frame off resto projects I've seen sitting for sale on wants ads, craigslist ads, and on blocks in backyards because of budget issues. What's worse is like you, the folks who owned these cars wanted a cool driver and not a perfectly restored show car. I'm a proponent of not breaking the bank on any project that you intend to drive on a regular basis, and doing a frame off on a car you're going to be modding and driving is really a waste of money because driving it starts wearing away at that resto the moment you hit the road and that money is wasted.

If you want to customize the car, or at least mod it, then use your money to get it in the shape and trim you need it to be in, and leave the frame off resto action for another day or another owner. The last thing you want to do is spend so much time and money making the body 100% perfect that you can't afford to do the things you really want to do to it, or worse have to get grey hairs for every nick, scratch, and chip you see after a day on the road.

 

[Lazarus]

I agree with you Bruzilla in 99.5% of all cases. This car is already pretty darn straight as is. Very little body work when compared to most cars being restored. Also, it is a nice running and driving car as it is, so I AM wasting money redoing it. But it could be better. The paint is not bad at all but the previous resto is showing age and the interior was never done as well as I would have had it. I may have been a little unclear. I am NOT cutting any corners on body, prep and paint as I did not cut any corners on the engine build. I bought an extra engine and tranny and had both built to put into the car to keep them safe. Would have been much cheaper to keep them in. When I talk about keeping in a budget, I am referring only to the upgrades and mods. For example, the interior is ok and all there, so if I run out of money before I get to it on my priority list, it can wait. Like the power brake and steering upgrades etc. So please understand that I am NOT cheaping out on what I feel makes a nice car. Only the upgrades or niceties are what I need to stay on budget with. As I stated before or in another thread, I eventually want a car as convenient and reliable as a modern car, so it could be driven daily, even though I won't. I just want to be able jump in and go when I want. Not that it will be a daily driver. When I attend shows etc, it is with little notice because I have a very odd work schedule. I do thank you for the input and can see where you could be concerned. I appreciate anyone trying to save me from a heartache or an empty wallet! Lol

 

[Dennis H]

No tubs. USCartool subframes. 11" hemi drums work good for me. Add AC, Vintage or Classic Auto Air, power windows from a1 electric include regulators. Sweet ride.

 

[moparmarks]

As it sits should be able to get a 10" wide tire in there.
Using the offset spring hanger should fit a 12" meat in there. Just requires relocating the spring pads on the axle.
On the wiring, Painless is probably the most generic and MH for Year-1 the most factory correct. There are others such as Francis that are more correct fitting but with extra circuits for fans, amps and such.
Your car is nice with #'s motor and fender tag. My 71RR is not #'s and no tag or sheet and I won't cut on it. I had a full tubed 72RR and though it was a cool car the tubs really hurt the value. Cutting is hard to reverse. That is what Satellites are good for. I'm building a 71 Dart that's been inboard and mini tubed but its just a 318 Dart.
I do like that your storing the #'s motor and running a stroker.

 

[Lazarus]

I'm with ya on the the uscartool frame connectors. That's who I was looking at buying through. The car already has air and power windows from the factory, just thought there might be a better compressor to swap from another model. I THINK the upgraded electrical and connections will speed up the slow windows, so I may wait to see on those till everything electrical is done. I've had 10" tires on the car and the girl seemed to think they were a joke. I wouldn't trust my wife to drive her on those. I just don't think 12's would do it either. I think she is gonna need 13's at the least. I was thinking of just cutting a line down the inner wheel well and adding 1 1/2 oe 2 inches to it. If done well, it should not be noticeable to most from the trunk and not affect the back seat at all. That should give me the room without taking much material away. Am I right on this? Thanks again for everyone's input!

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One more thing, if it were you and the wiring from painless is 1/3 the cost, is it worth the extra headache, or would you go with the Francis regardless? Thanks

 

[moparmarks]

The US Cartool connectors are real good ones but weld in from end to end. There are ones that just bolt/welt to the frames and not the floor like the US ones. Easier to remove. Adding 2" to the wells looks great and yes can use the back seat but they do cut into the trunk and under seat pans. Will bring the well to the frame rail but the spring will still be in the way so is a waste without the in-board spring cut.
It is your car to do with as you please but just layin out the deal for you. You can't cut most Mopars like you Fords and Chevys without turning off a lot of buyers if you ever decide to sell it. I sell quite abit a metal to people wanting to un-tub their Mopar.
But if done right you will have one bad *** bitch under ya.
You might want to do more research on the wiring to find one that fits your needs. The Painless is cheap but will leave you with work and wiring to figure out than the others.

 

[71airgrabberRR]

If you are worried about traction, I would consider using the "Ground Pounder" leaf spring system.

Several years ago I restored of 1970 Challenger R/T that has a Herb McCandless built stroker 440 engine that now sports 500 cubic inches and has Indy heads.

The car also has a 6 speed manual trans and has been dyno tested and makes a little over 600 HP with a mild cam.

Using this system on the Challenger was a breeze to install and did not require any cutting, just had to drill a few extra holes in the frame rails.

This car makes monster torque an wheel spin is not a problem. If you don't care about originality and you want something that works I would think seriously about this set up.

Another advantage is that the tail pipes can exit in the factory locations, where as if you move the springs inboard the tail piles will probably hit the springs.

The ground pounder set up uses a quad shock arrangement to help control axle wind up.

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[moparmarks]

You can run the modern Sanden 508 A/C compressor. Think AR makes the BB brackets

 

[Bruzilla]

I may have been a little unclear. I am NOT cutting any corners on body, prep and paint as I did not cut any corners on the engine build.

The problem isn't cutting corners. The problem is unexpected costs, especially when you're looking at undoing a previous restoration. This goes exactly to the point I was trying to make. You have a nice, straight, car that looks pretty good as is. You budget $X dollars to do the resto. Everything goes great until they strip away all the paint and you find out what's lurking underneath it, which is when you get the dreaded call from your P&B guy telling you how there was a lot of hidden rust issues, poorly repaired damage, excessive bondo, problem areas that aren't major now but will be if they are not fixed, etc., and all of a sudden the $X you budgeted to get the job done is barely enough to get the job started. This is the point where many projects end up getting primered and then stuck in the backyard. When it comes to drivers that look good as is... ignorance is truly bliss, and easier on the wallet.

As nice as your car is, I would just get the paint and minor body issues cleaned up, make the mods I want, drive it like I stole it, and hold off on a resto until I'm wanting a restored car more than a driver.

 

[Lazarus]

Thanks for the insight Bruzilla. My mind is however already made up to redo this car. I have already overspent just to buy the car, engine tranny etc. I knew going into it that I will be losing money. I would like to keep the loss from growing greatly, but some things will just have to be what they are and move on from there. In my opening post I stated that I AM redoing my mopar and I asked for any suggestions or must have upgrades to make the car enjoyable and reliable. So this post wasn't meant to turn into a "should I do it?" thread. I was just looking for ideas on upgrades that are cost effective. For example, I don't want to put 5k in a new front suspension that would gain me a couple of tenths in the quarter or another 5k in an overdrive tranny that I would get a few more mpg from. Those mods in my case and for my purposes would be pointless. A new front suspension rebuild from pst for a few hundred bucks or some nice aftermarket plastic interior pieces on the cheap would do me well. Since I am going resto mod, I don't necessarily need the correct grain if I can find nice new pieces etc. I do appreciate you looking out for me though and I do look forward to hearing any suggestions from you and others with what can be done to complete this project. Thanks, Chris

 

[Lazarus]

Moparmarks, thanks for the heads up on a better compressor. That's probably what I've been looking for.

71airgrabberrr, I like the idea of the ground pounder. A little pricey but not too bad. I was thinking of buying some new axle dampness and installing them, like the quad shocks on a mustang. I am thinking that installing them would give me 90% of the same effect. Brackets and bilstein shocks for them are $100 bucks new. Do you think this would work?

 

[Budnicks]

Hey guys. I've been a long time lurker and now I'm finally redoing my mopar. Any suggestions for must haves for a mainly street occasional strip car? My car is a Tor Red AC car with white interior and power windows, but no power steering or brakes. Will probably upgrade steering and brakes and wiring. Also, I have a certificate for 65% off from my first order from painless, so will probably be getting my wiring from there. Anything else I should get from them and do any of you guys need to get anything from them?
As you can see, it is a much cleaner start than most have to work with, but it is just not what i want from it. I have already reine the 440 and made a 505 stroker and rebuilt 727. Brakes are manual drums, yuck. Lol Thanks, Chris

IMHFO Build it how you want it, almost anything can be put back to stock, but maybe not original... As far as wrecking the value, I wouldn't be all that concerned, especially if you plan on getting years of fun driving out of it, they aren't really high $$$ cars to begin with... If you planning on keeping it for a long time, it won't really matter, not everyone buys or builds these cars on the basis, of what they would be worth for a resale value, except the people that flip cars or don't keep cars very long, try to make $$$ of them... I know I don't build anything on that premise, I really never have, never really had any problem selling, if I had or wanted too either... I say, Build her how you want to, I always do, I'm a big day 2 type guy they can always be better, do quality work & just don't hack it up, try to do as much bolt on stuff that you can with-out welding in or cutting out a bunch of stuff off, that will ultimately cost a ton of $$$, if you do wanted to ever go back to 100% stock or plan to sell to a purist, that has to have everything that the Factory/OEM car was equipped with from Ma-Mopar... Keeping the original #'s matching engine/trans combo is good for resale value... It means much more to some people than it does to others... I've personally never had a problem selling a modified Mopar, even race cars... Us Mopar people are a little too overly **** bunch, especially when it comes to #'s stuff, Vins, fender tags, build sheets, badging etc., then there's the originality, grain in the interior, type of carpeting, what shifter knob, original suspension, original rear end, brakes, rims, tires sizes etc.... I prefer a Resto-mod over stock myself, I have had many of both... I respect all the work that goes into doing both... But I like better handling, better braking, better overall performance, better seats, with a mostly stock looking exterior with nice rims & tires, the Mopar body lines are so good they should be pretty much left alone, with minor changes like a different hood or removing trim or something, melding multiple years of a model that "I like" & don't give a rats a$$ what someone else likes, they can build their car how they want to, as long as it's not a hack job I can respect what others choose to do... RR's aren't exactly the highest value cars, in the 1st place, so it's not like your cutting up a Daytona or a Superbird or a Hemi car or an A12 car or a Max Wedge car etc., that will actually bring big money... $20k RR's even nice ones, are a dime a dozen... How do I know, I'm on my 13th RR 68-71, most were 68-69's thou, only 2-70's & 1-71 & many times you can get them cheaper even... There's allot of sellers that have had cars for sale for a long time that are overpriced too... IMHFO there's allot that don't sell for the big bucks, some of the die hard Mopar purist think they will, or claim they will, unless it's a Barrett Jackson setting/sale big money buyers in a bidding war or 99-100 pt concourse, rare optioned car maybe... You can/will spend $30-$50k or more to do a 100 pt restoration, if you do allot if not most the work yourself, then the car is still only worth $20k-$30k when done, unless it's a higher end resto & perfect fresh restoration... The Resto-Mods & Pro-Touring cars are the big sellers & trends lately, many cars that are highly modified & "if done really well" can/will bring more $$$ than a 100% restoration, especially if it's just a 383 base RR vs a higher trim level GTX, 6bbl or Hemi higher end/value car etc... I say "have fun, that's what it's all about, build it how you want it, drive it like you stole it" & damn the rest... good luck no matter what you decide to do... my $0.02 cents

 

[71airgrabberRR]

Ground Pounder, March Serpentine System, R-134a

Moparmarks, thanks for the heads up on a better compressor. That's probably what I've been looking for.

71airgrabberrr, I like the idea of the ground pounder. A little pricey but not too bad. I was thinking of buying some new axle dampness and installing them, like the quad shocks on a mustang. I am thinking that installing them would give me 90% of the same effect. Brackets and bilstein shocks for them are $100 bucks new. Do you think this would work?

That is the basic idea behind the ground pounder system. It is a quad shock system very similar to the Mustang.

Also on the Challenger we used a serpentine conversion system with billet aluminum brackets and pulleys. We had to machine a small water pump pulley spacer to make sure the belt alignment was true. We have had no problems with this change. It allowed us to install a small Sanden R-134 compressor too.

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In the 2nd "front on engine" picture, the alternator didn't have the billet aluminum pulley pressed on yet. This was still part of the mock up stage. You can see it laying on top of the original pulley which is black.

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[moparmarks]

I agree with Bud that if a Restro-mod is done right it can bring good coin. Doing it right is the trick.
Here is one we just build and it just sold at BJ Vegas.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=684&aid=524

I was just informing him that IMPO that cut a 71RR will most likely hurt the valve and is not that easily reversed. If he is not worried about that then cut away. The only one to have to impress is yourself.