Replacement Camshaft for 67 R/T 440

[TX67RT]

Hello - I am going to perform a top-end refresh of my all-original 67 R/T this spring. The engine has never been apart. I plan to add hardened seats to the '915 heads, replace the springs and the camshaft as part of the refresh.

I know that camshaft technology has come a long way since I rebuilt the engine in my 440+6 Cuda back in the 80's. Anyone have a recommendation for a near-restoration level camshaft replacement? I will leave this car bone-stock including breaker points, 4327S AFB, cast iron manifolds, etc. However, I'd like to take advantage of any additional power available through camshaft technology. I don't mind a slightly lumpy idle, but don't want to compromise drivability. I want to keep the power band very low; most torque from off-idle to about 3500 RPMs.

Cheers,

JD

PS: Should I be cutting my '915 heads, or swap to '906's and preserve my '915's uncut? Since it's only for hardened seats, I don't think it's a big deal. But, I don't want to "ruin" a set of rare heads. JD

 

[ga66mopar]

I used the comp cam xe274 cam in my 66 with a 440. I wanted a cam that worked well with my 323 gears. It has very strong bottom end torque and has strong mid range power and pulls hard to 5500. It has a great idle and works well with power brakes. You could use the 452 casting head and get harden seats and they flow about the same as 906's.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I have a 440 I built using 915 heads that I believe makes for an excellent street engine, and cheap to do. The cam I'm running is the MoPar .455 / 272 on a 112 LSA. It requires a single spring with about 110 lbs on the seat so it should last for a long time and be somewhat tolerant if you are in a pinch and have to add low zinc/phos oil. It has a power band that cuts out at 5500 and holds 12" hg vacuum. The idle is a nice mellow rumble; the throttle response is like a motor cycle (with an honest 10:1 CR); runs great with the stock iron intake (12.80@108 in my 4000 lb Belvedere with slicks) and can lug around town all day long. Ideal street strip gear ratio is 3.55 but will be happy with 3.23 or even 2.94's. Manifolds might choke it down a bit on the top end so I never use them. I like headers and a free flowing exhaust. Go ahead and put the hard seats in your heads and run 'em. I posted details under the 12 second build thread.

 

[69Bee]

The 915 heads will be fine. Have a valve job done, install exhaust seats, and have the heads milled 0.005" to 0.010" to clean them up.

ALL heads NEED to be milled when you have them rebuilt. ALL heads twist, cup, shift, etc.. Hell, I have even had one head that was like corrugated tin when I cut it. Fresh iron seasons as it goes thru the heat cycles, and the molecules in the iron relax, and shift. This process when done manually by the user is called Stress Relieving. In order to correct this, the pieces needs to be cut to restore the alignments when you remove them, period. Race hemi blocks were the only ones that were stress relieved at the factory (I am not positive about Max Wedge blocks).

If a shop tries to say you don't need to, either insist on having it done, or find another shop. I charge $60 to mill a set of V8 heads, and it is money well spent. The original head gaskets should be metal shim gaskets (~0.015"-0.018"), and unless you replace them with Mopar Performance head shims, the replacements from Fel-Pro will have a crushed thickness of ~0.038" - 0.042". If you have 0.010" milled off, this will help restore some of the lost compression.

As a last note, use a good MOLY assembly lube on the cam lobes, you MUST use a proper break-in oil for camshaft break-in. I use and sell Joe Gibbs BR and BR-30. The BR has a viscosity of 50 and the BR-30 has a viscosity of........wait for it........30. :icon_lol: I do not recommend additives for regular oil because it needs to mix before it is effective, where-as, the Joe Gibbs is already mixed.

I do this for a living, so ask or PM me if you have any questions.

Dave
Precision Machine Service

 

[TX67RT]

The 915 heads will be fine. Have a valve job done, install exhaust seats, and have the heads milled 0.005" to 0.010" to clean them up.

ALL heads NEED to be milled when you have them rebuilt. ALL heads twist, cup, shift, etc.. Hell, I have even had one head that was like corrugated tin when I cut it. Fresh iron seasons as it goes thru the heat cycles, and the molecules in the iron relax, and shift. This process when done manually by the user is called Stress Relieving. In order to correct this, the pieces needs to be cut to restore the alignments when you remove them, period. Race hemi blocks were the only ones that were stress relieved at the factory (I am not positive about Max Wedge blocks).

If a shop tries to say you don't need to, either insist on having it done, or find another shop. I charge $60 to mill a set of V8 heads, and it is money well spent. The original head gaskets should be metal shim gaskets (~0.015"-0.018"), and unless you replace them with Mopar Performance head shims, the replacements from Fel-Pro will have a crushed thickness of ~0.038" - 0.042". If you have 0.010" milled off, this will help restore some of the lost compression.

As a last note, use a good MOLY assembly lube on the cam lobes, you MUST use a proper break-in oil for camshaft break-in. I use and sell Joe Gibbs BR and BR-30. The BR has a viscosity of 50 and the BR-30 has a viscosity of........wait for it........30. :icon_lol: I do not recommend additives for regular oil because it needs to mix before it is effective, where-as, the Joe Gibbs is already mixed.

I do this for a living, so ask or PM me if you have any questions.

Dave
Precision Machine Service

Thanks for the information on cylinder heads. I prefer to use my original heads, and want to make sure cutting them for seats isn't going to hurt their value. I'm very careful about making any mods to this car.

One question on the head gaskets: Do you recommend cutting the heads 0.005"-0.010", and then using the MP shim head gaskets? Or, would you use the Fel-Pro's after decking? I want to maintain compression, but not bump it up too much. Good gas is hard enough to get as it is.

And yes, I'm very familiar with stress relieving. I'm a tooling engineer, and always require vendors to stress-relieve the heat treated components prior to finish machining/EDM/grinding. You're right, steel can move a great deal! Thanks for your insight on the heads. I'll contact you when the time comes to pull the heads for rebuild. I might even consider shipping them to AZ for you to handle.

Cheers!

JD

 

[Meep-Meep]

I'm running the MoPar steel shim but you can run the composition too and have good results. You are right about keeping the compression at a reasonable level. 9.5:1 is a good number.

 

[69Bee]

I would cut the heads 0.010" and use the composition Fel-Pro gasket. That should lower the compression into the 9.5:1 area, but without measuring and doing the math, it is only a good guess. If you take all of the measurements, you can see what the Fel-Pro gasket and the steel shim gasket will give for a compression ratio, and make up your mind which one will work best for you. Coming from Texas, I would also recommend the Fel-Pro valley pan 1215 with the blocked off exhaust crossover.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1215/overview/make/dodge

 

[Texpar]

Personally I'm a big fan of Hughes cams. They pretty much specialize in mopar cams.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I run the 915 heads on my 451, stock seats, and have had no issues so far. And I use the steel shim gasket too. With the 509 cam, it has plenty of low end torque.

 

[TX67RT]

Personally I'm a big fan of Hughes cams. They pretty much specialize in mopar cams.

I'm somewhat familiar with Hughes; I've read through their website. Looks like they're mostly into high-horsepower engines, but could get me something for my basically stock package. I'll probably give them a call when I'm ready to buy and discuss their recommendations.

Thanks,

JD

 

[6t4polara]

sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/mrsixpackHOF.html‎

Is Bob K still doing his thing on the 6 pack cams?

 

[lewtot184]

in my opinion, if your going to keep the stock carb, intake and exhaust manifolds i'd just keep the stock cam. keep in mind that stock HP valve springs will coil bind at around 1.35" and at .480+" valve lift you start to get into retainer to guide/seal issues. another thing is the lack of a good quench with the '67 piston/ combustion chamber combo. with a stock piston and shim gasket quench is around .100" and with a fel-pro gasket around .120". both are poor and won't support 93 octane fuel. stock as built compression is around 9.7:1. adding a thick gasket will get that around 9:3 but adding gasket thickness to reduce compression without decreasing the quench distance will make matters worse for the use of pump gas. the quench issue can be solved with a step piston but most people don't understand them and shy away from the concept. i've tried several different camshaft profiles in stock builds and have found no magic bullets. i think you'll gain more by doing some port work on the heads than by any "reasonable" cam change.

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Over the years I've heard various retainer to guide claims, Hughes I think claimed .450 as max lift before you need to trim guides. My own personal experience has been no interference with a .50x cam. But, as stated previously, stock carb, exhaust, heads, points, stamped rockers, why bother with a cam. I never say these words, but.....leave it stock. A bigger cam with your setup won't be any radical improvement unless you make the air flow in and out easier (headers, intake,etc)

 

[TX67RT]

I'm certainly not opposed to going back in with a stock camshaft. I had a lobe go bad on the factory camshaft back in about 1984, and installed a Direct Connection hemi grind purple shaft as a replacement. That cam has been in the engine ever since, and the car has always been a strong runner.

I just figured that with today's new cam technology, there might be something available that would perform a little better than stock, and maybe even work better than the old-school Direct Connection piece. Guess I assumed that the stock cam wasn't all that the factory engine could accommodate.

Thanks!

JD

 

[HT413]

There are plenty of better cams on the market than a stock cam or a purple shaft, and your motor will benefit plenty from one if that's what you're looking for. Call Lunati, Hughes or Howards (there are others as well). All 3 of them specialize in mopar camshafts and can recommend a more modern grind that can take advantage of your combination. If the cam they help you pick out needs more spring, retainer, etc, no big deal, you're having the heads looked at anyway right? We're talking a couple hundred in labor and materials.

 

[Mebsuta]

I have a 440 I built using 915 heads that I believe makes for an excellent street engine, and cheap to do. The cam I'm running is the MoPar .455 / 272 on a 112 LSA. It requires a single spring with about 110 lbs on the seat so it should last for a long time and be somewhat tolerant if you are in a pinch and have to add low zinc/phos oil. It has a power band that cuts out at 5500 and holds 12" hg vacuum. The idle is a nice mellow rumble; the throttle response is like a motor cycle (with an honest 10:1 CR); runs great with the stock iron intake (12.80@108 in my 4000 lb Belvedere with slicks) and can lug around town all day long. Ideal street strip gear ratio is 3.55 but will be happy with 3.23 or even 2.94's. Manifolds might choke it down a bit on the top end so I never use them. I like headers and a free flowing exhaust. Go ahead and put the hard seats in your heads and run 'em. I posted details under the 12 second build thread.

That .455 / 272 is what I would use if I had a 440 instead of a 383.

Speed Pro CS1148R is the same camshaft, I think.

I keep looking at it and wondering if it's better than the old HP 268/284 .450/.458 115 LSA.

 

[Garys1969RR]

in my opinion, if your going to keep the stock carb, intake and exhaust manifolds i'd just keep the stock cam. keep in mind that stock HP valve springs will coil bind at around 1.35" and at .480+" valve lift you start to get into retainer to guide/seal issues. another thing is the lack of a good quench with the '67 piston/ combustion chamber combo. with a stock piston and shim gasket quench is around .100" and with a fel-pro gasket around .120". both are poor and won't support 93 octane fuel. stock as built compression is around 9.7:1. adding a thick gasket will get that around 9:3 but adding gasket thickness to reduce compression without decreasing the quench distance will make matters worse for the use of pump gas. the quench issue can be solved with a step piston but most people don't understand them and shy away from the concept. i've tried several different camshaft profiles in stock builds and have found no magic bullets. i think you'll gain more by doing some port work on the heads than by any "reasonable" cam change.

What is the factory installed piston below deck clearance on a 1967 built 440? The heads would be the famous 2780 915 closed chamber with good ports. Using a .020 steel shim gasket, and a closed chamber head, and .020 below deck piston you would have .040 quench. Great for a street engine! I run .037 quench, Meep Meep runs about the same, and these motors really run well at that clearance. Plus they are more tolerant of low octane fuel.

- - - Updated - - -

As for the cam choice, what you have should work fine at 10 to 1 C/R or less.

 

[67coronetman]

Sorry i am a rebel i am old school i have used the 292/509 mopar performance cam works killer & sounds great ............ I know i am going to get hate mail why would anyone use that dumbbbbb old cam ... Cause it works great plan & simple but that is me and what i would say to use..

 

[Meep-Meep]

That .455 / 272 is what I would use if I had a 440 instead of a 383.

Speed Pro CS1148R is the same camshaft, I think.

I keep looking at it and wondering if it's better than the old HP 268/284 .450/.458 115 LSA.

One way it's better is you will get more mid range power. The slightly increased overlap will make some more torque but still very streetable. You can actually have a normal timing curve and your carb will work great pretty much out of the box because you will have a good vacuum signal. I categorize this cam to be a slight enhancement over the stock grind but the power improvement is far beyond what you would expect comparing the specs.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry i am a rebel i am old school i have used the 292/509 mopar performance cam works killer & sounds great ............ I know i am going to get hate mail why would anyone use that dumbbbbb old cam ... Cause it works great plan & simple but that is me and what i would say to use..

Nothing wrong with the .509. It's just not a good daily driver street cam. But it makes power!

 

[Garys1969RR]

Sorry i am a rebel i am old school i have used the 292/509 mopar performance cam works killer & sounds great ............ I know i am going to get hate mail why would anyone use that dumbbbbb old cam ... Cause it works great plan & simple but that is me and what i would say to use..

Yes the 509 cam works well in my 451, even down to taking off from a light. But I am running a lot of initial advance, like 18 to 20 degrees which helps. In addition, I am using vacumn advance, with a lot of compression ratio. Throttle response is great, even at 1200 to 1500 RPM. I have had to do a lot of experimenting to get everything to work.

- - - Updated - - -

As 67 Coronetman has stated: the 509 cam likes a lot of compression, higher stall converter, and gears. In addition I would say it likes a lot of ignition timing. I don't think you could get away with this combination of C/R and ign timing advance with a milder cam that has an earlier intake closing point. The engine would surely ping.