Roller rockers....not enough oil?

[5.7 hemi]

Broke the 470 in, and I think I have s problem. My rockers are Harland Sharp roller rockers and it looks as though I don't have enough oil hitting the valve springs, also not much oil at the bottom of the head.

I did prime before fire up and I got oil out of both sides, pressure was good. At idle it doesn't look like there is enough oil, and at 2400 there's a bit more but imo, still not enough.

Anybody got a suggestion as to what to look at?

 

[cryplydog]

Whats your oil pressure and what wt./ type of oil? Whats your idle speed. Are you sure you put the rocker shafts in alignment correctly with the oil ports in the heads? New pump too? Did you check that the #4 cam bearing is in alignment with ports? If all is ok you could shim the pump spring or put in an adjustable pressure spring, you should have 10lbs. per 1000 rpm approx.

 

[451Mopar]

I'd pull the rockers, and make sure oil is coming up from the #4 cam journal to make sure the cam bearing is installed correctly, Should get oil out of the next to last rocker shaft stands on each head (Big Block) when cranking the engine.
Next is to make sure the rocker shaft is not up-side down. The small oil holes under the rockers should face down and slightly inward (stock shafts). I think the HS shafts may not have the offset? I'm trying to recall if the lower rocker shaft hole for the hold down bolt is larger on the bottom than on the top on those rocker shafts, but the hole around the next to last hold down bolt in the shaft should have a large slippy fit as that is where the oil enters the rocker shaft from the rocker stand.
I think the HS shafts are normal diameter so I believe oil will flow around the hold down bolts. The smaller thick wall T&D rocker shafts need a hold down that is reduced in size at the point of the center of the rocker shaft for oil to flow around the hold down, but I would check that on the HS shafts too?
I haven't had any problem with the HS rockers. I do use use custom length pushrods so only about 1 thread is showing below the rocker arm.

 

[747mopar]

Agreed, double check the cam bearing alignment and shaft orientation. I've never ran a needle bearing rocker on a Mopar but would think there would be less pressure to force oil to the valve with the oil being free to just run out of the needles?

 

[not so famous bob]

I'd pull the rockers, and make sure oil is coming up from the #4 cam journal to make sure the cam bearing is installed correctly, Should get oil out of the next to last rocker shaft stands on each head (Big Block) when cranking the engine.
Next is to make sure the rocker shaft is not up-side down. The small oil holes under the rockers should face down and slightly inward (stock shafts). I think the HS shafts may not have the offset? I'm trying to recall if the lower rocker shaft hole for the hold down bolt is larger on the bottom than on the top on those rocker shafts, but the hole around the next to last hold down bolt in the shaft should have a large slippy fit as that is where the oil enters the rocker shaft from the rocker stand.
I think the HS shafts are normal diameter so I believe oil will flow around the hold down bolts. The smaller thick wall T&D rocker shafts need a hold down that is reduced in size at the point of the center of the rocker shaft for oil to flow around the hold down, but I would check that on the HS shafts too?
I haven't had any problem with the HS rockers. I do use use custom length pushrods so only about 1 thread is showing below the rocker arm.

Everything I have read, (and I installed mine that way), said to point the oil holes down and slightly to the out side--toward the exhaust side." The orig poster could pull his cam and have a machinst cut a groove in #4 cam journal about .030, for full time oiling. I have full time oiling to mine , but did it a diff. way. The grooving would be the easiest.

 

[miller]

have a machinst cut a groove in #4 cam journal about .030, for full time oiling.

That's exactly what I did on mine, since #4 bearing didn't have one. But, holes still need to be lined up!
I'd have those covers off, and run the motor, to see if the rockers are getting oiled. Those needle bearings will go south real quick, without oil.

 

[not so famous bob]

That's exactly what I did on mine, since #4 bearing didn't have one. But, holes still need to be lined up!
I'd have those covers off, and run the motor, to see if the rockers are getting oiled. Those needle bearings will go south real quick, without oil.

AMEN; I don`t have needle bearings. HUGHS ROCKERS.

 

[miller]

I suppose they work good enough, but, like any other part, have to have oil.
Shop that worked my block, who has a real good reputation...got pretty mad, after finding the cam bearings not quite lined up right. They figured it was fine.
I wound up using a 18" long 1/8" drill bit, and got my holes in line! For what that's worth.

 

[not so famous bob]

I suppose they work good enough, but, like any other part, have to have oil.
Shop that worked my block, who has a real good reputation...got pretty mad, after finding the cam bearings not quite lined up right. They figured it was fine.
I wound up using a 18" long 1/8" drill bit, and got my holes in line! For what that's worth.

I did the same thing when cleaning my block.

 

[lewtot184]

needle/ball/ roller bearings don't require as much oil as a rocker that runs fully on it's fulcrum point. HS shafts don't have the offset oil holes. the real deal is getting enough oil to cool the springs. grooving the #4 journal puts things into full time oiling and "may" require a restricter. make sure you don't have a restricter if your using the factory type oil supply.

 

[5.7 hemi]

When assembling the block, I did make sure the #4 cam bearing was installed right, holes lined up. Everything was groovy, no pun intended.
The HS rockers I got came with shafts that not good in my book so I bought some shafts from 440SOURCE. They have the small oiling holes on top and bottom of the shaft so I figured that would work better with the needle bearing rollers.
When I primed the engine I got A LOT of oil out of both sides, enough that it took me 20 minutes to clean up, all rockers received oil.
Engine was broke in, everything going according to plan. It's now that I see not much oil pooling in the bottom of the head at hot idle with 40+ of pressure at 800rpm. It still has break in oil 5w30.
It does have a new Melling HV pump.

 

[5.7 hemi]

My thinking is the spacers are a not allowing the oil to come out easily and my worry is not the roller itself, but rather the springs.

 

[Zeppelin264]

Everything I have read, (and I installed mine that way), said to point the oil holes down and slightly to the out side--toward the exhaust side." The orig poster could pull his cam and have a machinst cut a groove in #4 cam journal about .030, for full time oiling. I have full time oiling to mine , but did it a diff. way. The grooving would be the easiest.

You are correct. Holes are supposed to be DOWN AND OUT. Out being towards the heads.

 

[5.7 hemi]

True, but these shafts have the holes inline with the hold down holes.

 

[miller]

The HS rockers I got came with shafts that not good in my book

What was the deal with the HS shafts? Wondering if there's any dif, between them, and the ones your using.
And, did the cam go into the bearings, not tight enough, to turn any of the bearings?

 

[451Mopar]

My bad, down and out. As mentioned, i think the hs shafts have the holes inline with thr bolt holes. If the 440 shafts have smaller bolt holes, open up the lower bolt hole where the oil comes up. My cam is not grooved for oiling, and so far no problem. Only 0.620 lift hydraulic roller cam.

 

[threewood]

Did you use shims under the rocker shafts? The ones I have are bolt size and can restrict flow into the shafts if not opened up.

 

[lewtot184]

those HS shafts are induction hardened. you need a hard shaft to be compatible with those hard needle bearings. i think the idea of the rocker fulcrum oil hole down and out is only relevant to non-rollerized rockers. i can't imagine 440 source stuff being as good as HS. i'd call HS.

 

[5.7 hemi]

I ditched the HS rockers for my Isky ductile iron rockers. No dhims were used under the shafts. Turns out the HS rockers were just to tight on the shaft, not allowing enough oil to escape the rockers. Isky is doing just the opposite, I can see oil leaving the sides of the rockers and there is plenty of oil getting on everything. Still have 50 psi (thereabouts) at hot idle and flowing oil.

 

[66Satellite47]

You are correct. Holes are supposed to be DOWN AND OUT. Out being towards the heads.

You are correct. Holes are supposed to be DOWN AND OUT. Out being towards the heads.

The "down & out" is correct for "stock" or ductile or Crane aluminum rockers. The full rollers I've seen use the double drilled "in line" orientation. If not enough oil getting out to oil springs, I would guess to tight clearance between rockers & shaft supports. Just my uninformed opinion.