solid lifter or hydralic cams for 440 eng

[moparjohnny]

any ideas on this issue, i am debating which i should do for my 68 r/t.

 

[moparpoor]

The only factor with flat tappet cams are the over priced oil you have to run.It's roller only for me,no special oil required,no break in required,but cost is higher.

 

[moparjohnny]

what special oil is required for solid lifter cams iam not familiar with the process?

 

[gearheads78]

Our fine EPA has taken away the zinc (ZDDP) from all the regular oils you buy. Even diesel oil that used to be full of it has been mostly stripped of it. The friction forces of cam to lifter contact in a flat tappet needs it to keep them from eating each other. I know guys that have been building engines for 20 years without one cam failure losing cams right and left.

 

[67 B-body]

Our fine EPA has taken away the zinc (ZDDP) from all the regular oils you buy. Even diesel oil that used to be full of it has been mostly stripped of it. The friction forces of cam to lifter contact in a flat tappet needs it to keep them from eating each other. I know guys that have been building engines for 20 years without one cam failure losing cams right and left.

You know the guys losing these cams right and left?
Ask one of them if they used ZDDP additive in the oil.... STP has high amounts of ZDDP in it.

 

[67 B-body]

Or they could just use some of the oils already containing Zinc and other components "ZDDP". I think Amsoil, Joe Gibbs, one of the Valvoline oils, and many other racing synthetics would be something professional engine builders would be choosing today with any type of flat tappet camshaft or mechanical fuel pump engines. This isn't a new thing with the reduction of anti wear chemicals. Been going on for years now!
I believe plenty will chime in and let you know that your fine with whichever you choose, just use a good oil or additive!
If I were you choosing between the two types, I would suggest a solid mechanical camshaft over the hydraulic lifter choice.
Solids give you the option for much more aggresive profiles than hyd cams do. Mopar does have have the benefit of a larger dia lifter allowing for a little more lift without the added duration that you would see in Chebby camshaft profile. The issue is when adding the camshaft fast opening high lift lobes with hyd lifters is colapsing the lifter at the upper end of your RPM. There was a real good article on a 440 build in one of the magazines using several different cams and making Dyno pulls with each. They found this very thing happening as the HP levels went down at the upper end. A solid lifter was later installed and the numbers went way up!
I'll try to find it and post a link for you to read yourself.
:VB toast:

 

[moparjohnny]

thanks again

 

[Meep-Meep]

If you are building a mild street engine then a hydraulic cam is just fine. And you don't need to go crazy on the profile either.

The oil you want to use should have an additive package consistent with the SL rating or earlier. SM (and higher I presume) has about 50% of the zinc and phosphorus eliminated.

 

[wannadrag]

You know the guys losing these cams right and left?
Ask one of them if they used ZDDP additive in the oil.... STP has high amounts of ZDDP in it.

Yes the red bottle STP,but that has dissapeared as well.

 

[darkhorse]

any feedback on using Hyd.Roller cams? Im still deciding as well on cam choice for my 426

 

[Cranky]

Need to know what you are trying to do. How fast do you plan on going? Street car or track car? Hydraulic cams come in all shapes these days but still need good lubrication where as rollers don't need it like the older style cams do. The fed had been planning on getting rid of the ZDDP type additives for a long time and is the reason why the manufacturers went to roller cams. It took several years to phase it out because of the millions of cars on the roads that still had the old style non roller cams and once the majority of them were off the roads...poof, the ZDDP was gone. BTW, the ZDDP additives help 'poison' cat converters faster and is the primary reason the fed wanted it gone.....

 

[quick63]

For a street car you want to keep and drive a lot, a roller hydraulic is the best of both worlds.

 

[Satellite65]

Need to know what you are trying to do. How fast do you plan on going? Street car or track car? Hydraulic cams come in all shapes these days but still need good lubrication where as rollers don't need it like the older style cams do. The fed had been planning on getting rid of the ZDDP type additives for a long time and is the reason why the manufacturers went to roller cams. It took several years to phase it out because of the millions of cars on the roads that still had the old style non roller cams and once the majority of them were off the roads...poof, the ZDDP was gone. BTW, the ZDDP additives help 'poison' cat converters faster and is the primary reason the fed wanted it gone.....[/QUOTE]

Correct, for the most part (I think-lol).

The fact is, and I hate to admit it but this time it wasn't exactly the feds doing - sort of.

The auto manufacturers started using rollers long before they took out the ZDDP. About 3-4-5 years ago the feds mandated that ALL parts of the emmision control system must be covered under warranty for a period of 10 years, that includes cats.

Once the manufacturers started to realize that they were losing their shirts replacing cats on every oil burning 8-9 year old pig out there on the road they petitioned the oil manufacturers to get rid of the zinc. After all, they haven't needed it in years.

At least thats what I was told.

 

[Cranky]

10 years or 80k miles is it? Can't remember but I got the cat replaced on my 95 Dakota when it was almost 6 years old and had less than 80k miles and that's what I think I remember the dealer saying the 'fed' warranty was. The rest of the truck was out of warranty. The way I read it is that the EPA wanted it done....doesn't really matter....the gooberment is in the middle of our lives as usual.

 

[65-440]

8yrs / 80K ... extended federal emissions , covers cat converters, engine computers and other emission related items ..

 

[onebadbee]

I have a engine in my 68 bee that I put together in 1996. It have the same Crane Cams 504-528 cams, I put 5400 miles on it last year . My other car I have had 3 comp cams lose the lobes in the last 4 years, ZDDP or not. I went back to a Hughes cam I bought in 1999, I have had not problem for the last year (so far).
I feel that some of the problem maybe the cheap chinesse metal ? We have had problem with alot of stainless steel fit where it work , thin metal ,out off round, and just flat out junk.
Thanks Jim