Spot Welds 18g to the 10g cross member....

[stanhope55]

I am a novice welder but have done some. I am having some issues with my floor pan spot welds.

Basically, I have a Hobby Lincoln 180 Welder that I have wired up for 220v.

My floor pan is 18g and my crossmember metal that it lays on shows about 10g maybe 11 on the caliper.

Regardless, I have my welder set up for the thicker metal 10g which is E - 8 setting from the chart on the door of the welder.

I have the metal clean and weld thru primer. I am trying to hit the center of the hole to start and move the puddle in a circle. When I am done there is always a burnback of the 18g and a section that does not fill with the puddle due to the burnback. Looks like a pie with a piece missing.

I cant figure out if I am too hot, not hot enough ? I am holding the puddle for a count of 1000/1 and then trying to rotate the puddle.

Sorry for the long question.

HELP ?

 

[satman72]

Sounds to me like you are too hot. Weld for the thinner metal.

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Too hot, the thickest parts on the frame are around 14 gauge. If you turn down the welder a bit and still get burn through, do the weld, let it start to cool, then hit it again on the holiday, it will flow together.

 

[cryplydog]

stanhope55,i was a certified welder most all my working career, mig/tig/arc/oxy acet., and on many alloys. so here goes, first get some scrap pcs. and drill a few holes and clamp together, install ground clamp, I like .030 L56 wire and C25 gas on this kind of work but C02 is alwright too and L50 wire. next cut the wire off about eighth inch and position gun perpendicular to area to be welded and use both hands while laying arm on something to steady. pull the trigger and keep tip as close as possible about a 1/2 inch or so and trigger your gun on off on off and move gun accordingly while allowing weld puddle to burn in good then trigger your gun for about 1 sec. and get back in it for about 1 sec. and just go around the area to be welded. rusty material doesn"t weld worth a **** so use a good wire brush. remember that slowing down wire speed will have same effect as turning up voltage. most people use to damn much wire. weld should look flat concave and shiney not all piled up like bird crap. those little welders are good for that type of work. oh yeah, I hope your not using flux core wire. it would help maybe if you could have someone from the welding supply store stop by and give you some pointers. good luck. practice. position is everything and you have to be able to see.

 

[dryheat]

X2 on the NO flux core wire ... it makes really bad welds so hopefully your welder has gas.

X2 on the practicing on scrap material ... you'll be MUCH happier with the results the more you practice.

I have seen adapters for the end of the welding torch that have raised nubs to keep your distance and angle more consistent. Might be worth investigating.

 

[stanhope55]

cryplydog, beastlybirdie

thx for the info. I am running .25 c02, it seems to be getting good penetration, i will try running machine for 14g but my caliper says its closer to 10-12.

The hole at 5/16 is obviously not that big and it is likley due to my circular motion that i am trying to accomplish to fill the hole.

I did work on some scraps and the part i am having trouble understanding is that i could hit the hole at perpendicular and actually just sit in it and fill the hole but its not working on the car.

Bizzare and i know its me, but it sucks !

thx

- - - Updated - - -

No flux wire here. I just suck at it I guess

Its weird that i can fill the hole on scrap by just holding it in the center and letting the puddle fill itself but the minute I get to the car, not so much...

Wonder if its my weld thru primer ?

X2 on the NO flux core wire ... it makes really bad welds so hopefully your welder has gas.

X2 on the practicing on scrap material ... you'll be MUCH happier with the results the more you practice.

I have seen adapters for the end of the welding torch that have raised nubs to keep your distance and angle more consistent. Might be worth investigating.

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

.1345? That is 10 gauge mild steel. A bit over an 1/8th of an inch. Your torsion bar cross member is not that thick.
That aside, make sure you have good contact between the pan and the crossmember. If it is not solid, it will only cold weld.

 

[Propwash]

Obviously your running too hot for the thin side of things. Cryplydog and others have some great advice....Practice! Practice! Practice! As far as the generic dial settings, those are not bullet proof, just a basic guideline. They can change drastically from the person welding, welding position, the material and even if the machine is hard wired in vs. on an extension cord. I also run the .30 wire, especially for filling in spot welds. Just my opinion/welding style, but to me you can fill in the hole quicker, thus less heat to the puddle and HAZ (Heat Affected Zone). Again, like mentioned, play with your machine, get your welding position/technique down and play with the wire speed and amps settings to see how they react differently. To touch on your weld problem for a second, I'd mention make sure you have minimal panel separation before welding. If you're puddling the weld for build up to compensate for a gap between the two, you're gonna get too hot for that variance in material thickness. You shouldn't need to hold arc/position for proper penetration if your amps are dialed in correctly for the base material thickness. Grab some scrap metal pieces and go to town!

Good luck!

 

[trimmer]

I agree with all the above advice. The more welding you do the better you will become. Practice and take your time you will achieve both skill and ability. Good Luck.

 

[stanhope55]

So in your opinions what size would you say the torsion x member is 12g 14 g ?

Beastlybirdie, suggested earlier that 14g may be the correct thickness ? More curious than anything.

 

[cryplydog]

stan, I 'm certain that I read somewhere that that the frame channels were stamped and or roll formed out of 14 ga. mild steel. general construction grade like a-36. but that's about the only thing I haven't put a mic on.