Starter wont turn

[Ranger16]

You keep saying that the battery is good, but never say how you know? Don't go by a simple voltage test. You can get a good reading and still have a dead cell. Put a DVM on it and have someone attempt to crank it (load test). If you have a dead cell, the volts will drop to 9v or so.

"To add insult to injury, after I replace and installed the new starter, I bench tested the old one and it tested out OK."
I had the same thing happen many years ago. Bought a new battery. Car still would not start. Installed a new starter. Still no start. Got the old one back, still no start. Bench tested it and it was good. Reinstalled it and still no start. I was at the point that I could pull and reinstall it in :10 min. Neighbor came home from work and said "It's your battery". I said "it can't be, it's brand new". Long story short, it was the battery. It had a dead cell right off the shelf. Do yourself a favor and either load test it as I described or take it completely out of the equation by either bypassing it with the jumpers or replacing it with a known good battery. You can also test each cell with the DVM. You should see 2.1v per cell.

 

[Bill Monk]

You keep saying that the battery is good, but never say how you know? Don't go by a simple voltage test. You can get a good reading and still have a dead cell. Put a DVM on it and have someone attempt to crank it (load test). If you have a dead cell, the volts will drop to 9v or so.

"To add insult to injury, after I replace and installed the new starter, I bench tested the old one and it tested out OK."
I had the same thing happen many years ago. Bought a new battery. Car still would not start. Installed a new starter. Still no start. Got the old one back, still no start. Bench tested it and it was good. Reinstalled it and still no start. I was at the point that I could pull and reinstall it in :10 min. Neighbor came home from work and said "It's your battery". I said "it can't be, it's brand new". Long story short, it was the battery. It had a dead cell right off the shelf. Do yourself a favor and either load test it as I described or take it completely out of the equation by either bypassing it with the jumpers or replacing it with a known good battery. You can also test each cell with the DVM. You should see 2.1v per cell.

Thanks

 

[miller]

Bugged...so, how about a quick recap on this thing.

Like most of the others, sounding like something electrical. First, with the starter mounted up, by the key, does the starter spin? Second, this being a standard trans, do you know if a NSS is wired up? Think on a standard trans, the NSS works off the clutch pedal, that the clutch pedal has to be pushed in. But, also have heard some don't use a NSS, too, so that would wipe that idea out.

Another thought, for a standard trans set-up, is the starter relay itself. To bypass the NSS stuff, on the relay, the two wire lugs at the bottom are joined by a solder joint, simply connecting the two. Is your's like that? That connection needs to be made, before the starter solenoid will get juice, and kick in. At least, that wire from the relay, to the solenoid should be checked, to see if it's working.
If it all suddenly quit working, might be just a loose, or bad connection, somewhere in that circuit.

 

[Superb Bee]

I am curious about this one, has it been fixed?

 

[Ranger16]

Second, this being a standard trans, do you know if a NSS is wired up? Think on a standard trans, the NSS works off the clutch pedal, that the clutch pedal has to be pushed in. But, also have heard some don't use a NSS, too, so that would wipe that idea out.

Pretty sure there is no NSS on the '69 Road Runner. Mine doesn't have one.

 

[beanhead]

Bad connections cause this problem a lot of the time, so if you are getting stuck do a wiggle test. Have somebody turn the key and gently wiggle every wire at its connection point from the battery outward, that is involved in the starting circuit.. sounds silly but it's simple to do. I recently had a similar problem with the starter not engaging, turns out my brand new positive battery cable did not have the battery terminal properly crimped and it was not making good enough contact to carry the starting amps. When I bent the wire over a little bit it would start..luckily an easy fix

 

[Bill Monk]

I am curious about this one, has it been fixed?

Problem resolved! After checking everything and getting 12.4 volts everywhere, I finally did a voltage drop test and I was only getting 5 volts at the starter when I turned the key. It was the primary battery cable all this time! Thing is it looked new, the battery clamp was clean and shiny so I never even considered it. Note to everybody, buy a good multimeter and test everything before you start replacing. Save yourself a lot of time, trouble, and money!

 

[beanhead]

Problem resolved! After checking everything and getting 12.4 volts everywhere, I finally did a voltage drop test and I was only getting 5 volts at the starter when I turned the key. It was the primary battery cable all this time! Thing is it looked new, the battery clamp was clean and shiny so I never even considered it. Note to everybody, buy a good multimeter and test everything before you start replacing. Save yourself a lot of time, trouble, and money!

Aha those pesky new cables...glad you got it

 

[Ranger16]

Just out of curiosity, did you slice open the cable? I'd be interested to see or hear what the problem was. Corrosion under the insulation? Broken wire strands? By the way, how old was this cable?

 

[Bill Monk]

Just out of curiosity, did you slice open the cable? I'd be interested to see or hear what the problem was. Corrosion under the insulation? Broken wire strands? By the way, how old was this cable?

I am going to cut it open but I haven't yet. The cable was on the car when I bought it so I'm not sure how old it was but it deffinitely wasn't that old. The thing still looked new, it had to be an expensive repop of the original though because it had the correct terminals at the starter.

 

[Superb Bee]

I am going to cut it open but I haven't yet. The cable was on the car when I bought it so I'm not sure how old it was but it deffinitely wasn't that old. The thing still looked new, it had to be an expensive repop of the original though because it had the correct terminals at the starter.

This wire could be really old, I have made a few really old cables look really new. I used to do it to any cars we were just detailing up, you know to make that "survivor" look like it was stored inside a time capsule but never had a part changed.
Wipe down the cable with wax and grease remover, heat the wire up with a heat gun and rewipe, then dye it with polytec rubber/silicone dye, red black orange all different colors they sell, takes 5 minutes and the cable looks like you just broke it open out of the package.
If it has some cracks in the insulator its as simple as filling the cracks with paintable permatex... Maybe you got one of the cars I did, lol.
Sounds like a lot of trouble for a wire but considering they used to cost $250 for cables, you would spend a half hour making them nice, lol.

 

[Bill Monk]

This wire could be really old, I have made a few really old cables look really new. I used to do it to any cars we were just detailing up, you know to make that "survivor" look like it was stored inside a time capsule but never had a part changed.
Wipe down the cable with wax and grease remover, heat the wire up with a heat gun and rewipe, then dye it with polytec rubber/silicone dye, red black orange all different colors they sell, takes 5 minutes and the cable looks like you just broke it open out of the package.
If it has some cracks in the insulator its as simple as filling the cracks with paintable permatex... Maybe you got one of the cars I did, lol.
Sounds like a lot of trouble for a wire but considering they used to cost $250 for cables, you would spend a half hour making them nice, lol.

Interesting, never thought of that but regardless, spend the cash for a good multimeter and test it all before you replace. I learned my lesson!

 

[69a100]

Funny story here. About 8 years ago I'm at a car show and there was this fairly nice 64 dart, but under the hood looked like a 200 yr. old car. I look at the + Batt cable and there's no insulation whatsoever on it, and the strands of wire were that copper colored it really sad shape. Yes it was the original cable. I kinda give him the riot act about how his cars going to burn with that cable on there. He gets all defensive and starts ranting about how that's the original cable and it's fine and I don't know squat song & dance. I just said yeah whatever PAL and walked away. Just cause it looks good doesn't mean it is! Good job.

 

[Superb Bee]

Interesting, never thought of that but regardless, spend the cash for a good multimeter and test it all before you replace. I learned my lesson!

See I have multimeters but I wouldn't use it diagnosing your problem, I would have figured it out before most guys can get the tester setup, I would have grabbed my jump pack and started at the battery, no matter if it was a brand new battery, I would have clipped it on and turned the key, still just popping the flywheel, I would have lifted the car (or crawled under worse case lol), grounded the jump pack and tapped the starter lug with the positive, some car you cant reach so you clip the positive to a big ole screwdriver and then holding the handle tap the positive lug.

You are would have spun right over where then I would have known it was the power cable, because its the only thing in between. a couple minutes, at the most, stuck on the road a jump pack on the starter will get you home, get the car running and don't shut it off.

Some times 5 feet of wire, a jump pack, a soda bottle with a hose and fitting on it, paper clip, or a 9v battery with an flash light bulb and some roach clips, is all the tools you need to diagnose a problem.

I had a 2 liter soda bottle that I screwed a fitting too with some Teflon and a 5/16 hose, If I put some gas in it, and step on the bottle a little while turning over the car, it starts a carbed car right up, and run long enough to move it into the shop, driving with 2 feet one on the gas pedal one on the gas jug.

I have since made a better system with an electric pump and a gas can lol...

 

[Superb Bee]

PS I am glad you got this figured out, nothing better than that, good for you...

 

[Superb Bee]

Funny story here. About 8 years ago I'm at a car show and there was this fairly nice 64 dart, but under the hood looked like a 200 yr. old car. I look at the + Batt cable and there's no insulation whatsoever on it, and the strands of wire were that copper colored it really sad shape. Yes it was the original cable. I kinda give him the riot act about how his cars going to burn with that cable on there. He gets all defensive and starts ranting about how that's the original cable and it's fine and I don't know squat song & dance. I just said yeah whatever PAL and walked away. Just cause it looks good doesn't mean it is! Good job.

People are touchy about their survivors, I know a guy pulled over on the way to ohio nationals arguing with a cop because his windshield was so cloudy you couldn't see out of it, lol. HE got a ticket for impeded vision, and was so pissed off, saying "this car is all original, I'm not changing a thing". He got in an accident maybe 2 years later and I said probably would have seen that ford Taurus if you could see through your windshield, now your car is going to have a bunch of non original parts.. (in his defense the other car ran a red light and was trying to get away from the cops when he did it.) But that windshield was so bad it was sticky, I never seen anything like it, he did fix the car and changed the glass, but with more oem stuff, although much nicer than what he had..

 

[Chickenman21]

Late to this party but I have the same problem. 69 RR started and ran fine then all of a sudden All I got was a click at the starter when I hit start. After a couple of times trying to start it I didn't even get the click. Replaced the starter relay, battery and the starter with no change. The battery cable is a couple of years old and has not been a problem. I will try the remote start button idea today.
In all the posts no one mentioned the ignition switch. Is that a possibly for this problem?

 

[Superb Bee]

if you are getting the click I would be surprised if the ignition switch was the issue, IME the 69 and down dash mounted switches are either good or bad, I have had issues with the 70+ column mounted ones, but most issues are down at the connector not up at the switch.

Like I said to the original member with the issue, go ahead and put power right to the starter, if she turns, the problem is before it.

Cables can be deceiving, they don't have to be on fire to be bad, you can have them junk and look brand new.

 

[Chickenman21]

if you are getting the click I would be surprised if the ignition switch was the issue, IME the 69 and down dash mounted switches are either good or bad, I have had issues with the 70+ column mounted ones, but most issues are down at the connector not up at the switch.

Like I said to the original member with the issue, go ahead and put power right to the starter, if she turns, the problem is before it.

Cables can be deceiving, they don't have to be on fire to be bad, you can have them junk and look brand new.

Got the neighbor to assist with meter. Yellow wire to starter relay had 12V. Turns out the new relay is bad. Put the old one back on and checked it. It's good. Checked current to the starter. Cable OK. Pulled the new starter back out and bench test was questionable. Put it back in and same old problem. Pulled it back out and took it back to auto parts store for testing. BAD STARTER! Two new items. Both bad. Pick up another starter tomorrow. Hopefully a good one. It will be tested before I leave the parts store.
Thanks, guys.