Starting to work on the Charger... FINALLY! Pics.

[Hemi Rebel]

With the engine on a stand upside down you van clean up the deck surface without crap falling in the engine.
Of you mean pick it up with your hands? No. Way too heavy.

 

[jenkins71]

Yeah. It's seeming like a good idea...
No, what I mean is, can you attach a chain to the motor safely without the heads being on...? Cause I've always used holes in the head (intake bolts, bracket bolt holes) to attach a chain to lift a motor out.
Sam

 

[SublimeSixpack]

This is the sort of project that can really snowball if you know what I mean. Sounds like you need to decide how far you really want to go with it.
If you have the time, equipment, space, tools, etc. necessary to pull the engine (it wouldn't take much from the point you're already at), and if you do want to freshen up the engine bay, I'd go for it. Like mentioned by Rebel with the engine on a stand you can rotate it, lock it in place then scape the deck surfaces and pistons so that the debris falls to the floor instead of into the cylinders, etc.
On the other hand if you're more inclined to just resolve the head gaskets issue there are little techniques (basically common sense) that you can use to clean up the surfaces in prep for new head gaskets.
To lift the engine out you can use something as simple as a section of chain bolted to each side of the block to lift it out. The links just need to be large enough for the correct size bolt to slip through. If you go this route I'd suggest you also use a bolt, a couple washers, and a nut in the middle of the chain to create a loop for your engine lift hook, this will stabilize the engine side to side, then have a helper there to stabilize/balance the engine front to back. Make sense? If you have what some refer to as a "tilter" that would make the process even easier.
Let us know which route you decide to take. I'll help as best I can here from my keyboard even though I'm more of a hands on sort of guy.

 

[poopdeckpappy]

So it was the permeated gasket after all!! That is a relief! Saves money and time if what your looking to do is fix just mechanical issues. Is the motor on the inside clean including the cylinders? If there's no scoring or oil flow problems, put it back together, power wash and move forward. Oh and what I meant about the oil flow coming to the top is when valve covers off, motor running pushrods should be giving oil freely to the rockers. If it looked dry in any area you might have some gumming or blockage in the oil galleries. Happy you figured it out on the one side. Look forward to doing the same possibly on the other. Godbless.

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Was posting from my phone and didn't see the other pages about pulling the other head. Honestly as far as you are now. Knowing what you know. I would resurface the heads, redo valve stem seals and grind the valve seats if necessary. While the resurfacing is being done , pull the motor and get busy with the learning journey. I guarantee you that you will not regret it. When you look back 20 yrs from now you can smile and have that sweet memory of your first rebuild. I'll never forget mine and surely everyone on this site will agree with a smile on their face about the first rebuild being a challenge and a reward at the same time. It's all yours now.

 

[jenkins71]

Thanks for the input guys. Sorry for the silent treatment, I was out of town for the holiday.
Yeah, I AM going to pull the motor. I got the cherry picker, with "tilter." I got the motor stand.
I am going to send the heads out to be resurfaced, for sure. Anyone is the New York area know a good shop? As for a full rebuild, I dunno. I'm just really worried about the cost. I'll send more pics and see what you guys think.
More pics and updates to come. I should be able to get back in the garage tomorrow....

 

[SublimeSixpack]

Cool! Good luck with the removal.

I know you haven't decided how far you'll go with the engine work, but if you decide to remove the lifters and camshaft (and plan to reuse them) be sure to keep the lifters in their proper order so they go back in on the same cam lobe as they are now. (Maybe you're already aware of this, if so disregard)

Updates and pics would be good!!!

One thing I noticed from the photos of the heads is that they appear to be casting #452 (from 1976-78). They have induction hardened exhaust seats from the factory, that's a plus.

 

[jenkins71]

Hey guys,
So today I finally made some progress on the Charger. I have been spending most of the past few days organizing my workspace and building a new workbench for the upcoming motor work.
But today I got the motor out! Even after going on a bit of a bender last night, me and my brother and law were able to get it out without any hiccups. Easy as pie.

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so, let me just say that the bores look pretty good. You can still see the cross-hatch pattern on the hone. The ridge at the top of the cylinder isn't even there, you can't even catch your fingernail on it. The ONLY thing that is weird is the #5 cylinder has sort of a dark gray "stain" streak on it that feels very slightly rough on the finger. I will get a pic of that as soon as I can. Didn't get a picture of that before.

 

[jenkins71]

Ok guys, now I am kind of stuck.
Today I went though the heads some. I did the "water test" and blew air into the ports to look for bubbles where the valves would be leaking. No leaks.

I also did the "flatness" test, using a old rigid metal ruler. There were a few spots where I was able to slip a .006" feeler gauge between it and the head surface, which means I will have to have them milled.
Ok, so I know the heads will be milled, and that's all they will need.
Now on to this hunk:

Feeling a little over my head. Any help would really be appreciated.
I was hoping since my compression was good, I would be able to just replace the head gaskets, and all the other gaskets while I had it out of the car, and call it a day.
Here is a look at the #1 cylinder. It read 155psi on the compression test I took before yanking the heads. You can see the crosshatch hone and the ridge at the top of the cylinder is barely perceptible. You can't even catch you fingernail on it!!!!!

So with this piston I'm thinking I won't even touch the short block, other than checking the timing chain out and replacing some gaskets. Most of the other cylinders look good
BUT!
Then I noticed this on the #5 cylinder, and am totally confused about what it is and what it means. (Keep in mind that this cylinder had 130 psi on the compression test, with is REALLY good considering it had a cracked head gasket. I expect if the head gasket were attached it would be up there around 155+ like the other cylinders.)

I know it is hard to tell from pictures, but I will say that this mark could barely be felt by my fingers. Just barely if I closed my eyes, I could feel it. I can't tell if its coming in or out.
Guys, any thoughts???
Thank you!

 

[jenkins71]

I've decided to hone and re-ring.

 

[Brandy]

just guessing i'd say that it's a stain from water from the blown gaskets. 6" stone honing rig should cut down the high spots. just keep it centered in the bore as you go to not get out of shape yer gonna want about a 30 degree crosshatch so dont go up and down too slow. if you got moly rings you need a very smooth bore surface.

 

[jenkins71]

Yeah, I did order moly rings. Any recommendations for what to look for when buying a hone?

 

[SublimeSixpack]

Honing the cylinders and installing new rings sounds like a good idea.

I suggest you check your cam bearings, rod and main bearings, crank journals, timing chain, oil pump, etc. After doing this you'll know just how far you need to go.

FWIW Recently I tore down a rebuilt 360 that only had 41,000 miles on it to find that the cam bearings were shot, the rod and main bearings showed more wear than they should have, but the cylinders looked good.
So I took the block and crank to a machine shop I know and had them hot clean the block, hone the cylinders, install new cam bearings, plus cut the crank .010 and polish it (because it was threaded). The machine work was done right, and the cost wasn't bad. Then I did the rebuild at home (installed a new cam and lifters, file fit the rings, new rod and main bearings, new timing chain/gear set, gaskets, seals, etc. It worked out well for me this way.

 

[jenkins71]

Yeah, I guess i should check everything out now that I'm getting it all apart. I'm just worried I'm gonna F something up. Also worried about getting in deep financially.
I guess I am going to have to buy a micrometer set?

 

[SublimeSixpack]

Micrometer set? You may want to Google "Plastigage" it's a lot cheaper. You can use this product to check rod and main bearing clearances.

I know you're trying to keep costs down, but at the very least do a visual check of the cam, rod and main bearings. If the bearings are really bad you'll be able to tell. But again, Plastigage isn't costly.
On the cam bearings check to see if there are spots where bearing material is missing.
I can post pics if it'll help.

 

[jenkins71]

Hey guys. SI'm enjoying tearing this motor apart! A little apprehensive since I'm all alone and have never done this before, but it was a thrill to knock out that first piston!

Looks like the bearing were worn on the connecting rod for at least cylinder #1.

Also, is it normal that the bearing kinda fell off the cap? Like when I lifted the cap off the bearing stayed on the journal due. I figured I'd have to kind pry it off the cap.

 

[cr8crshr]

Normal for the bearing to come off the journal when you disassemble an engine. On your re-ring job 2 things:

1: Make sure that you stagger the ring gaps around the cylinder. If aligned up they will cause leakage and will not seat properly. Just an old tip.
2: While you are at it, try and clean out the H2O jackets in both heads and the block. Previous pics showed a tremendous amount of sludge. Once you have the block apart you can run H20 through them and I use a tad of CLR to help. At his stage then you can re-build and do a complete flus later. But I would do that before you fire it up after completion.

If the crank looks good and the end play is within tolerances I would not tear that down unless you want to. Just give it a good check of the rod journals. If there is any indication of galling or surface abrasions, then you will need to pull the crank and have it turned to clean them up. Then new bearings for both the rod journals s and crank journals. Finally...Do you have a FSM...Factory Service Manual? If not then please save yourself headaches later when you rebuild and get one as it will have all the torque specs needed. Also, Don Taylor's Book, "How to re-build Big Block MOPAR Engines" is also a good reference to go along with the FSM. I used both when I re-built my first BB back in 2003/4 and I still use both when I re-build today. Keep us in the loop. This site is loaded with a ton of experience and everyone here loves to help..even if you are a couple of thousand miles away. Once you re-build your first engine, there is nothing like its feeling when it cranks over and fires right up...cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[SublimeSixpack]

jenkins71,
Many on here will relate to the excitement of your first engine tear down! Enjoy!

 

[jenkins71]

Thanks so much for the encouraging words guys. I really wouldn't have dug in without your support. This all started as a compression test!!!

As you can see I have all my ducks in a row now. This is fun! So far a bout half of the con rods have the cap-side bearing worn down to where you can see copper a little bit. What's up with that?
The bearings on the rods also have "010" on them. I guess that means they are .010 oversize?
So, should I just replace all the con rod bearings?
I am also taking off the main caps. I have one off and then I had to go to bed. It looks okay. What would you do? Go ahead and replace them? Or check them with a plastigage?

cr8crshr-- thanks for the tips. I have both of those books. I love the "How to Rebuild Your Big Block" book. It's been super helpful. Well-written. I find a lot of these books are kind of crappy, but this one is great. And of course the FSM is a must-have.

 

[poopdeckpappy]

The wear on the cap bearing could be normal or indicative of worn main bearings, or a number of other things. Keep going, your going in the right direction. Don't forget to lay the main bearing caps out in order just like the connecting rod bearings. I envy you for having the time to break into it. I have the 383 on the stand untouched for over a month now. I'm starting to get anxious by watching your progress! Looking good though. Look for wear and replace anything out of the ordinary.

 

[jenkins71]

SUP DUDES.

Well, the motor is totally taken apart now.

I took all the main bearing caps off, and snapped some pictures of the bearing surfaces.


#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

Thoughts??????