State of the Hobby

[Big D A12]

Where there is smoke there is fire. This topic continues and is fueled by many of the points made. "Cheapsunglasses" comments are to the point and have merit.

I see this same scenario playing out in the shooting sports. Most gun clubs (shotgun) are inhabited by a group of old curmudgeons who just turn their nose up at the younger generation. When someone does not feel welcome, why would they come back? The same is true of car shows and the hobby.

My advice as an older guy (50 +) is take the time to look at the newer cars and talk with the owners. You will see real talent mechanically (forced induction i.e.) with some of these cars. Remember, they are gearheads like we are just a different age with different tastes. A car guy is a car guy. I don't care what he drives. (Mopar is preferred, of course)

As for what is collectible, it is definitely generational. What was desired when new, is desired now by the generation that was too young or couldn't afford it new. (That is us 50+ guys now) Think about this with respect to the current muscle car era we are going through...

Much to the chagrin of many here, I enjoy driving my new muscle cars over the old. Going cross country in comfort with 700 plus horsepower at your fingertips, air conditioned, and getting 24 mpg is hard to replace.

But, that's just me. To each his own.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

D

 

[roadrunnerh]

The Cold War Motors dude, Scott has a Model T he drives. The more I see it, the more I like it. I could get into wrenching around with one of those!

 

[DeltaV]

Fine I’ll bite.

First problem is a lot of older guys treat these cars as trophies. They pay someone else to work on them, so their kids and grandkids don’t see the work done. They sit in garages only to be taken out if the weather is absolutely perfect and there’s a car show, or they’re trailered to a car show, so again children and grandchildren never get to ride in them and enjoy them. Heaven forbid a kid goes near your $40k or more restoration. I know not everyone is like that, but there’s enough out there.

2nd problem. Hoarders, “I’ve had this car for 30 years, I’m never going to sell it, or build it, or touch it. But damn it you can’t have it. Then it rots to the ground.


Third problem. If I younger kid has an older car, if it’s a 4 door, station wagon, or even a 2 door. If it’s not a $40k restoration, or if it isn’t absolutely perfect, all the old guys will talk **** about his car and make him feel not worthy, so he’ll stop coming to shows, and he’ll go out and hang with his friends.

Fourth problem. People don’t do driveway maintenance, they send it off to the dealership, how are kids suppose to learn when they aren’t taught?

Some of you older guys are the reason for younger guys not getting into the hobby. Hoarding stuff, making prices of cars astronomical and unattainable. Treating younger guys poorly. I know it’s not all of you, there’s a lot of great people here.

The third problem has been a problem forever. Well, not the $40k part, but some high value for the times.

It's best to make friends and hang out with them. Just make sure they're old car fans too. Girlfriends need to be car fans too.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I like all old cars, but especially Mopars. While my Dad had Model T's and a Model A, he also had a 1925 Dodge when I was a child. That's me in the car, probably about 1963 or so. I wish I could find and buy that old Mopar back! Loved it even as a little kid.....

 

[Richard Cranium]

This was at the cruise in over the summer. It is owned by a nice young man in our area, although I’ve never seen him before or since. This was his labor of love, and I’ll admit, it’s a nice, simple, understated example of what early hot rodding is all about. Kudos to him for keeping it real. I’d say the hobby is in good hands, if his hands are where we’re headed.

View attachment 1377870

Probably his grandfather’s car.

 

[Detective D]

The gap in wealth has grown. Most young people can't afford an old car. They need a car they can also use to get to work etc. This is why the newer ones interest them, they can drive it every day and a bank will lend them money to buy one.
Young people also have a lot more interest in custom, hot rod, rat rod..... NOT shiny museum pieces. For similar reasons. They can relate to not owning a shiny museum car, and see people driving these for what they are not because of "value".
I am not a young person. I am not 65 years old either. When I was 20, boomer generation people were cashing in retirement and buying their dream cars and the prices got out of hand. Prices have come down, hard, on most old cars since then. "Value" is what you can get someone to pay for it. The guys trading these things back and forth to keep them in storage sheds are propping up a value in the market that doesn't actually exist. At some point, a lot guys are going to be left holding the bag when their own generation is gone and there isn't another guy to come speculate value to cash out with. My generation has been working 60 hour weeks on what is now our second major economic recession. We don;t have the money to swoop in and bail out the "value" people either.
California has laws on the books to make internal combustion engines illegal on public roads in ten years. A whole lot of not that special cars are going to tank in "value". Go drive them while you can.

As for car culture, there is plenty of that around. More so now then I have seen in a long time actually. It's just that the car crowd also like 1990's Japanese sports cars, modern muscle, and isn't interested in buying a car for "value". There is more "crazy" hotrodding going on then there was the first half of my life by a mile. People still love muscle cars. There's just a lot more competition and economics "ain't what they used to be".

 

[Fran Blacker]

Why am I suddenly thinking about buying a model T? I never saw the appeal…until now. Thanks guys.

If you want a Model A B or T they come way down in most cases. Friend spent 30k restoring a 1931 Model B. In 1998 he was selling it (trying to keep business going) he was getting offers $15k and lower. Still the Chinese put him out of business.

 

[440 PHIXX]

That the subject keeps popping up should tell us something.

A guy I knew in the antiques business (had 20 shops across southern Cal and Nevada) said the window for enthusiasm is 30-75 years. A thing becomes collectible and of interest at about 30 years. At 75 years, few people are into it.

He pointed to an early century Tea Table, with a lace table cloth. He said he couldn’t give it away today. Said yesterday a woman came in and chewed him down to $35 and he finally said “I’ll take whatever you’ll give me for it.“ She walked out empty handed. He tells me 30 years ago, he could have sold that table every day.

Right now, iconic kids toys from the 1980s are hot. SLR cameras, which you couldn’t hardly give away 15 years ago, are hot. I asked him, “who’s buying?“ He said “millennials”. I was stunned.

If you want to get your socks blown off, look at eBay for Toyota Celica Supras from the 90s, with the turbo motors. Exceptionally clean cars go for over $100k, unrestored. Same goes for GNX Buicks. Many of those buyers are millennials.

Weve had a fantastic run, and there’s still gas in the tank. The cars that we love were already becoming collectable at 10-15 years after they left the showroom. But RC is right, there’s going to be some great deals in the next 25 years as it winds down.

But it will wind down.

The same guy bought 4 GNX Buicks this year. He payed more for each of them all low mile cars. Are they worth $225k because one guy had to have 5 of them? They have a THM200 trans, and less than 300HP. But then again, he isn’t driving any of them.

 

[Charged440]

All other things aside, timeless style is in our favor. Things that are pleasing to the human eye, ear and taste buds will always be around.

 

[68BabyBlue]

All other things aside, timeless style is in our favor. Things that are pleasing to the human eye, ear and taste buds will always be around.

Like the 1930s equivalents, such as the Imperials, Packards, Cadillacs, and Duesenbergs, Auburns, and Cords, to name a few, I think the elite of the Mopar Muscle cars will still be sought after, a generation from now. However, they will be prized as artwork, based on aesthetics and history, apart from any functionality as a vehicle. While personally not a fan of Hemi E bodies, I think they fit this mold. Hemi Chargers, even more so.

 

[sam dupont]

Put anybody, of any age, behind the wheel of a 1970 V Code Pistol-Grip four speed car and you have a life long convert to old Mopars.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Much to the chagrin of many here, I enjoy driving my new muscle cars over the old. Going cross country in comfort with 700 plus horsepower at your fingertips, air conditioned, and getting 24 mpg is hard to replace.

I can relate, but I'm finding that driving an old car with a modern drivetrain and creature comforts is the best of both worlds.

 

[cosgig]

Probably his grandfather’s car.

Nope, he bought it in pieces and took a couple years to get it going. To challenge himself, he left the mechanical brakes, and tried to stay true to his vision of a simple to work on hot rod he could jump in and enjoy. He still has work to do on the interior, but he’s headed in the right direction. I’m not usually an old car guy, but this one caught my eye, and the owner was very pleasant to talk with. He knew his car, that’s for sure.

 

[Dennis H]

The future means that there will be plenty of musclecar deals in the next 20 to 25 years when most of us are pushing up daisies and our kids fire sale them.

True that. The Hellcat crowd is going crazy about ADM markups now. Don’t care. Nuts to pay them to speculate. Drive your cars.

 

[demonram]

Thank you for taking the time to try to get your grandchildren into these cars, you are a great man, and they’ll also cherish those memories!

My daughter and 7 year old grandson were here a few weeks ago. Dallas, my daughter said dad, ask junior what his favorite car is. He said a Tesla, I don’t know where he got that from. I bought him a Viper remote control car and he loved it. Then we went for a ride in the Plymouth and we went to the zoo in the D150. Now if you ask him his favorite, it’s a Dodge. He had a hard time with Plymouth, but it’s a start.

 

[Charger72]

These are very different times, how would most kids even know about our old cars. Unless it's a car show I rarely see any 60's 70's cars.
If a kid walks by my house and the garage door is open it's usually that's a nice blue or I like that race car.

 

[Speedbird]

@Cheapsunglasses has some spot on comments.
Almost thirty years of driving a 1973 long distance for work everyday and I've seen a lot in this MOPAR "hobby".
From junk yards with grandma cars in them that no body wanted, to junk yards with no older cars in them now.
Driving them in the rain and muck is not something I think about twice.
It's old hat.
But I sort of wish people wouldn't come up beside me on the interstate and honk.
It startles me.

Some here would slap people on the wrist for uttering "trailer queen".
But other's have said it , were immune from prosecution and avoided..

The OE lawn chair crowd with dust rags at the MCACN with mirrors under their cars.
What in the world are they looking for?
Probably the most important word in the English language is "balance".

These have been around for years and Irony is when they are now described as "new old stock".
How apropos.
LOT OF 10 "Warning If you see this Car on ...Its Sotolen" Stickers NEW OLD STOCK | eBay

 

[Runcharger]

There was something on Youtube about Canadian cars at MCACN so I watched it last night. The show was poorly put together but about halfway through I seen my old 71 Hemi Charger. That's the one car I really miss but when I went to bed last night I was thinking about it a little bit. In my mind I bet the old Charger would love for me to sit in it again and throw it sideways while roasting the Goodyears into oblivion. The days of cruising these cars and having street "acceleration contests" are gone forever.

 

[streetmachine]

Fine I’ll bite.

First problem is a lot of older guys treat these cars as trophies. They pay someone else to work on them, so their kids and grandkids don’t see the work done. They sit in garages only to be taken out if the weather is absolutely perfect and there’s a car show, or they’re trailered to a car show, so again children and grandchildren never get to ride in them and enjoy them. Heaven forbid a kid goes near your $40k or more restoration. I know not everyone is like that, but there’s enough out there.

2nd problem. Hoarders, “I’ve had this car for 30 years, I’m never going to sell it, or build it, or touch it. But damn it you can’t have it. Then it rots to the ground.


Third problem. If I younger kid has an older car, if it’s a 4 door, station wagon, or even a 2 door. If it’s not a $40k restoration, or if it isn’t absolutely perfect, all the old guys will talk **** about his car and make him feel not worthy, so he’ll stop coming to shows, and he’ll go out and hang with his friends.

Fourth problem. People don’t do driveway maintenance, they send it off to the dealership, how are kids suppose to learn when they aren’t taught?

Some of you older guys are the reason for younger guys not getting into the hobby. Hoarding stuff, making prices of cars astronomical and unattainable. Treating younger guys poorly. I know it’s not all of you, there’s a lot of great people here.

I agree with this all above but, I'll add my "Hill of Beans" Opinion here. I've ran into a lot of these things and not to mention some vendors and restoration shops also have poor attitudes or work ethic as well. I don't do shows anymore because too much drama, disrespect, and cliche for what I've experienced. I like to make them nice but, no so nice that I'm afraid to drive and enjoy it.

I also think it's just the way of the world these days as well with things. Most people also don't want understand the effort or want to put in the work or effort to maintain or restore one of these cars excluding external factors. The auction houses and TV shows make it look easy or just focus on "resale value or what's the most money I can get" rather than what the intent of these cars were meant to do which is pieces to be driven, respected, and enjoyed. Cars that sit after restoration aren't being done much of a favor either as parts still rust, seize, and seals rot due to lack of use.

 

[Budnicks]

The prices & sales I've seen, says it's alive & doing very well...
maybe not for most of the 16-30 y/o crowd

Just like 30s-mid 50's hi-$$$ Hot Rods/Roadsters/Street Rods
or even Pro-Street craze
the Billet-laden showboats/cars were in 1975, when I came to driving age
for many of our piers
$50-$100k (1970's $$) us 15-18-20 somethings 'only dreamed about',
owning one day
still desirable too, now are like $25k,
unless it's a 39-41 Willys Coupe, it's still $85k+

some shows, different deals
not everyone is the same
seems geographic too, where you are

The market may be peaking, 'maybe not' (my opinion)
I don't see it getting cheaper at all, 'not yet'
I've heard this **** since the mid-1980's 'muscle cars are dead'
they did lose some value, we got them dirt cheap, for old 'just used cars'
they weren't collector cars in my day...
Gas wars didn't help that ****
muck like what's happening today, cha-ching

Maybe (?) the new generation doesn't like them 'as much'
More trends change, IMO the more they stay the same too
just different cars

opinions vary vastly, still
Yet still, muscle cars are doing well, especially resto-mods/pro-touring
selling for unseen $$$
less so the 100% OE restos purists with painted steel wheels & poverty caps,
not so much, like it was in 2007
I think personally, it's more people (the younger crowds) just want to drive them
get in & go, not work on them, as much per sey
They want a lil' bling too...

I was the type my whole life was going out in the garage
& doing something new on my car/s
we didn't have the internet, hell video games were
mostly at arcades/bowling alleys still
seems many of the youth today don't leave the couch/basement
or get off their damn 'cell'-phones
( not you @Cheapsunglasses or your types, you're more of an anomaly )

I see it daily across the street, it's (car culture) alive & well
Shea a teenage kid/boy
(car guys grandson & Tom his granddad, his old house,
has a few cool muscle cars... Shea's dad Tommy (who bought the house)
is a 4x4 guy, Shea's a chip off the old family block)
& all his HS/car buddies', their cars are 'all vastly different'
from Mustangs new & old to lifted mostly Ford 4x4s old & new
to Imprezas WRX to hopped-up old VWs, 68 Chevelle, 78 Z28 Camaro
(grant you, they are all mostly 'work in progress') a few Hondas & Toyotas
but not many MoPars up here...
Shea's gone from a 66 Mustang, his grandpa helped him find, to a 2007 (?) Mustang
he didn't have that thing long
to a 2009 (?) Impreza Wagon (he's a skier, needs AWD or 4wd)
to an Impreza WRX lowered with coil-overs, corner machine/autocross-er
really nice lil' car, he did all the bodywork & had it repainted rally blue
now has a 73 VW with a stroker boxer engine, all primed & spotted,
still not painted "yet"
& Now has his sights on a 69 Chevelle 396-ss too (just like his grandpa has)
kids a hustler, that sells all kinds of stuff on Fakebook to fund his builds

a lot depends on where you live too, or who raised you
car culture is alive & doing very well out here

IMO most kids are interested in what they can afford
just like we (or I was) were, back in the 70's & early 80s
cars about 10 years old, are affordable, not yet 'collector cars'
Many people with older muscle cars want a small fortune for junk/rusted hulls
huge deterrents to what they can do (skill set) &/or afford

One or 3 car shows, is not a trend
seen these cars come & go, in & out of favor, several times now
I'm not a car show guy at all, most kids aren't either,
'not yet',
they are probably more attracted 'to the shiny objects',
it's what they know or see regularly
Cars someone's parents 'bought for them', not 'built for them'

I'm a 'use the car for what it's intended for', type of guy, it's a learned skill set
many of them haven't had the chance to learn, "yet"

IMHFO a lot depends on how/where the kids were raised too
you can blame the parents & the schools, that have raised them
many can't get their heads out of staring at a 4" screen all damn day
& in inner-shitty's (mass transit, ubber/lyft, busses etc.) they don't need
or many don't even care to drive or bare the expenses or brainwashing today

opinions will vary vastly, that's mine