Steering gear question

[Wietse]

You can also adjust the gear shaft to reduce the free play - might not have been set correctly in the rebuild. FSM has the procedure.

Company's like Firm Feel and Steer & Gear will be very accurate on this setting for obvious reasons.
Even by following the FSM you will still have slop at the center section, it is the way these boxes are.
Tightening the adjuster until there is no slop at all in the center would cause the gearing to bind in the off-center sections which obviously is also an unwanted result.

Coming from an old and worn stock box to a rebuild unit will feel like a good upgrade, but it's by far not what a Borgeson does for the steering comfort.

 

[ckessel]

Something else I thought of that might be a contributor to the slop you have. What shape is the coupler in? Are the shoes inside worn? Have a look at that. On the Borgeson units, one of the issues I see with them being a possible pain for install is not getting all of the components you need to do the swap out. You buy the box, then try to figure out what to do for fittings/coupler. It helps if you get ALL of the items for the switch from someone who does this for a business to sell and install. Someone who has figured things out firsthand, not some ricer sitting at a swivel chair who has no mechanical knowledge. Henceforth, BAC. Just my 2 cents.

 

[copper67sat]

Coming from an old and worn stock box to a rebuild unit will feel like a good upgrade, but it's by far not what a Borgeson does for the steering comfort.

I don't disagree. The factory box will not provide the same feel as one of the modern upgrades. All depends on what the OP wants. If he wants to keep the factory setup, or just doesn't want to swap boxes right now, then there are things he can try to improve the one he has. Adjusting the gear may not help, and there is a limit to the adjustment, but who knows how well it was set by the rebuilder and it's a pretty easy thing to try.

 

[Kern Dog]

I’ve installed 3 firm feel boxes with good results

I never complained about the installation of the Firm Feel units. The complaint is the slop in the center of travel.
If you have tall, skinny tires, you may not notice the free travel because the tires don't respond quickly like performance tires do.

 

[dan juhasz]

No. The problem the OP has will improve SOME with a Firm Feel rebuild but the actual problem lies with the design of the steering box. The Mopar steering box was essentially unchanged from 1957 to 1989.

Uhhh, No again. I had a Firm Feel unit in my Charger and with less than 14,000 miles on it, there was no adjustment left to it.....it still had that terrible slop in the center of travel. It didn't leak but the slop was terrible. Look at the photos below to see how much slop was evident with the engine running.

View attachment 1340915

View attachment 1340916

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Is this acceptable to you? This is free play before the tires actually start to respond.


No for the 3rd time. If the Borgeson unit was so bad, they'd be out of business from bad word of mouth. I installed one in the Charger and all of the center slop is gone. There is no hissing noise. It fit with zero modifications and the quality of the parts in the Bergman Auto Craft kit are top shelf. The car is much better to drive now.
The parts store rebuilds of the factory steering box are usually nothing more than a cleaning and regasket job.
At least Firm Feel replaces worn parts and installs upgrades. I don't blame them for the slop that these boxes have. They do the best that they can with what is a 65 year old design.

Thats how my Cardone box was exactly, it was almost scary to drive if it picked up a groove and you were doing 60 or 70

 

[dan juhasz]

I replaced my original ps box with a Cardone rebuild from Rock Auto and it has a lot less freeplay than the old, worn unit and it doesn't leak. I've been happy with it, but might just be luck of the draw.

Make sure you got all of the air out of the system. You can also adjust the gear shaft to reduce the free play - might not have been set correctly in the rebuild. FSM has the procedure.

Cardone puts a green sealer on every bolt including the adjust screw and nut, tamper with it and no more warranty, I already removed the box this morning and re installed the box that the car came with. Huge difference for the better. I just made the cutoff to return to Rock Auto by 4 days. I have used a Borgeson box before on a 66 that I had the only complaint I have was not enough assist at low rpm. Other than that it was a precise unit, very tight. From what I've read about remanufacturers like Cardone is they clean and reseal , if the box was loose center when it arrived it will be loose center when it leaves, they do not address it. So it really is luck of the draw.

 

[azmoparboy]

Hi all, I too went through purchasing a remanufactured steering box. The center was horrendous. So much play that my Charger looked like I was drunk going down the freeway. I did some investigations into any local shop here in Phoenix that could support this gearbox that I had purchased from Napa. I found a bus mechanic that worked the bus system here in Phoenix and he advised me to go contact a little shop here in Phoenix called benchwork Steering. I went to them for a consultation about the symptoms that the steering box was demonstrating. Their head mechanic assured me that he had the ultimate fix for the dead spot that was in the steering box. I’ve had to do 3 different steering box’s for different projects, all with great success from BenchWorks. Also these 3 projects I did were complete front Suspension overhauls, so as to be assured that there was nothing that could be loose within the front suspension and steering that would allow any non-commander movement. They had also a guarantee that it would function and not leak for 90 days. I’m not for one to sending any part off to be restored and have to deal with customer service over distance and a phone conversation, I like in person. Don’t know if this info will help any of you but there it is.

Good luck,
Azmoparboy

 

[Charlie Brown]

Well, I upgraded to a Borgeson box on my ride (64 Polara). I purchased the complete kit from BAC, including the upgraded steering shaft coupler. Best money I ever spent on my car. I can now actually DRIVE my car. No unexpected lane changes either. No noises, lots of power assist, easy install and instant steering response. My car is now actually a pleasure to drive.

 

[Ron H]

Something to also look into is the alignment specs on your ride. If you're running radial tires, and the alignment is to OEM spec's, no longer applicable. After installing the FFII and larger wheels/radials, all the alignment shop I've used knew to do was factory specs. Obtained a spec sheet from a shop versed on radial aligning on old rides. Shop readjusted accordingly gaining a huge improvement impacting wander. There are some good posts about this on the forum you can check out...wheel/steering alignment.

 

[ckessel]

Very few rebuilders of the boxes, Firm Feel as an example[ not sure about Steer and Gear], truly rebuild the unit. Most of the ones you get through parts stores/mail order etc, will get just a cleaning/replace maybe a seal or two/get fresh paint, then out the door they go. Same deal on other rebuilt items. Junk. FF busts them apart, checks the main housing for issues, machines them for bearings instead of bushings on the Pittman shaft unless the housing is toast, puts together the best combo of what's salvaged due to age/wear etc, sets tolerances and firmness of valving, replaces other wear items, fully re-seals them, then they get sold to the end user. They go through many, many cores to get units that can still be used. Since they are dealing with something thats been out of production for quite along time, they source cores from salvage/core companies. Over time the amount of useable units is dwindling with no replacements.

 

[Don Frelier]

I've installed 2 boxes from Steer and Gear and I'm happy with them.
The one in my Charger has been in there for probably 20 years.

 

[Ron H]

Very few rebuilders of the boxes, Firm Feel as an example[ not sure about Steer and Gear], truly rebuild the unit. Most of the ones you get through parts stores/mail order etc, will get just a cleaning/replace maybe a seal or two/get fresh paint, then out the door they go. Same deal on other rebuilt items. Junk. FF busts them apart, checks the main housing for issues, machines them for bearings instead of bushings on the Pittman shaft unless the housing is toast, puts together the best combo of what's salvaged due to age/wear etc, sets tolerances and firmness of valving, replaces other wear items, fully re-seals them, then they get sold to the end user. They go through many, many cores to get units that can still be used. Since they are dealing with something thats been out of production for quite along time, they source cores from salvage/core companies. Over time the amount of useable units is dwindling with no replacements.

Thanks for the info. After a mopar shop installed the FFII, some time later, started hearing an odd sound after I drove for lengthy distances. Sounded like a tuning fork when I turned the wheel. Got it up on a lift to find the t-bar scarred, grease fitting sheared off (had hit the bar) and some metal scarfed off the header. Staring at the center link, noticed it had a rise to it - not level. There it seemed that odd sound; the center link was playing the violin on the header when things got hot enough to expand. Shop buddy said sure looks like the pitman is causing the offset. Couldn't see anything else wrong; but suggested getting a new pitman before resorting to bend the old one. Got one from a vendor on the forum, installed it and the clearance was restored. Isn't much with the TTI's as it is, less than 3/8". One of those things that was solved not knowing the cause more than a guess. No recollection of any occasion where it could have been damaged, new bushings were installed, was fine before the box install.

 

[Old Sparky]

So I took my first significant drive with the 67 Coronet RT that I’m completing. Logged about 150 miles on it round trip. Biggest complaint I have is with the steering gear. It is a remanufactured Cardone product. It has about 50/60 degrees off free play with the engine off. I’ve been told this is normal until the engine is started. Well even once started the same amount of free play still exists and driving the car it feels like a pinball bouncing between the bumpers (free play). So is there any other possibility besides just a lousy steering gear.
Thanks Dan

replace or adjust the box

 

[bc3j]

The biggest problem I had with steering slop was the aftermarket coupler. Fit loose on the worm gear like it was slightly oversized. Even had new shoes installed, but still sloppy. Cleaned my OEM unit, put in new shoes and slop is gone. Steers great with a totally stock box.

 

[Gus chiggins]

Well, I upgraded to a Borgeson box on my ride (64 Polara). I purchased the complete kit from BAC, including the upgraded steering shaft coupler. Best money I ever spent on my car. I can now actually DRIVE my car. No unexpected lane changes either. No noises, lots of power assist, easy install and instant steering response. My car is now actually a pleasure to drive.

Did you have to swap in a power steering column. My car is manual steering.

 

[dan juhasz]

Did you have to swap in a power steering column. My car is manual steering.

if its the same as the 66 coronet that i went from manual to borgeson power I had to cut the column shaft an inch or two.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Did you have to swap in a power steering column. My car is manual steering.

My car was already a p/s car, therefore, no column mods.