Street Block Solid Lifter Success ?

[70rcode]

Ok,....would you go for the Edm hole on the Trend Lifters and would you get the Crane solid lifter cam Nitrided & is this combo high durability compatible ?....Thx again,,.tom

 

[Ski 61701]

Ok,....would you go for the Edm hole on the Trend Lifters and would you get the Crane solid lifter cam Nitrided & is this combo high durability compatible ?....Thx again,,.tom

I would go edm and nitride on anything flat tappet, its cheap insurance to hopefully prevent flat cam. Some people get lucky, put new cam kit in, do break in and drive and have zero problems. Then you hear about others having all types of problems. Not trying to scare you... just being a realist is all. biggest thing is make sure lifters rotate in their bores when you assemble motor. I have gone and swapped lifters from one bore to another to have better rotation when you turn cam over by hand.
Plenty of good advise from others here.. We all want to see you succeed with this, with minimal grief.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I truly have no clue what your talking about.
Are you sure you have the right guy?

Yes, I was joking about the way you wrote the RPM range:

Vary rpm for 20 minutes between 2K - 25k.

That reads: "two thousand to twenty-five thousand RPMs" I know you meant "twenty-five hundred".

 

[70rcode]

I'm hearing 'bout Nitrited Process cast iron cam lobe Failures ! Seems the 1000° heat effect Un-tempers the cam's required Rw hardness & high risk of softened lobe under the thin nitrided surface spalding wiped lobe failures.

 

[70rcode]

This was sposed to be a fun retirement project & back in my day, i just Simply called Sox & Martin & used the latest factory super-stock/pro-stock parts & just bolted it on !

 

[70rcode]

Plus the Edm hole lifter won't work with my real fine $mith Brothers standard length solid lifter push rods (all edm lifters use hydraulic seat height lifter spec)

 

[IQ52]

Ok,....would you go for the Edm hole on the Trend Lifters and would you get the Crane solid lifter cam Nitrided & is this combo high durability compatible ?....Thx again,,.tom

I believe Trend tool steel lifters require tool steel cam cores and case hardening. Have you priced a case hardened tool steel cam core?

It does seem Comp Cams does list a tool steel lifter for cast cams with or without nitriding.

 

[70rcode]

I originally Was going to use a mega $$ Tool Steel billet core flat tappet cam core + AdL coated tool steel lifyers....Trend help Tech says that combo does Nothing to improve any wear issues over cast iron cam....?? I Didn't know that (& still kinda don't) says billet steel flat tappet cam Just easier to get Any cam timing specs & Nothing addressing flat tappet wear ? Kinda blew me away on that !! Shouldn't he Know ?

 

[IQ52]

I've never found tech line personnel to be the most savvy people and I prefer to speak directly with the engineers.

My experience is limited to what I read on Trends website...........and..........

A close friend couldn't get Shubeck lifters any more and went to tool steel lifters. In conversation with a cam company engineer, about getting another cam for his car, the talk got on to lifters. When my friend mentioned tool steel lifters the cam engineer said the tool steel cam core was 60 days out. Asking why he needed a tool steel cam core instead of a cast core like he was running the engineer said he'd better look at the cast cam that was in use. Upon inspection it was going away. He waited 60 days and the tool steel cam has worked fine.

At your spring seat and open pressures I see no reason an iron edm lifter will not work just fine.

 

[70rcode]

Thanks greatly IQ52 for that very info !! ..Gonna get to a engineering level at Trend...Does Crane do steel billet cam cores or can you suggest a proven Reliable Steel flat tappet cam spurce ?

 

[IQ52]

Crane may do steel cam cam cores, I've never asked them about it. But you do realize there is a difference between tool steel and iron lifters right? Iron is the regular hydraulic and solid flat tappet lifter.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I run I comp nitrided cam .630 lift in my roadrunner with Howard’s edm lifters. Broke it in with the inner springs removed. I use driven oils. Street/strip for the last four years. Been working great.

 

[70rcode]

At my particular V-spring Pressure specs, i intuitively "Thought" the higher Rw hardness highest quality grade ALD coated, tool steel, solid flat tappet lifters + properly matched, compatible , harder than cast iron, Billet Steel cam core should be Considerably less likely to flatten/wipe failure compared to any softer cast iron flat tappet lifter/cast iron core camshaft combo i know of & considering the simplistic, fewest Moving parts compared to any Roller lifter/cam combo Maybe
a less catastrophic, sudden fail/total motor killing mechanical thing, where frequent lash checks should catch a beginning abnormal wear issue earlier before big chunks & lots of metal powder damage effects but i have No real world experience with those $pensive steel combos...Anyone have above described billet-Steel experience ?

 

[biomedtechguy]

One of the MAIN reasons why I started this thread titled: Solid Rollers or Flat Tappet for street and strip. Looking for LONGEVITY and low maintenance...
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...ing-for-longevity-and-low-maintenance.183713/
One of the main reasons for that inquiry is I am having Southeast Performance R/T in Tampa build out a BMP 541 cu in RB stroker for my 70 Roadrunner.
My understanding of Jim Laroy's
advice and opinion on lifters for a performance build: NO to hydraulic roller lifters. "Lifter breakage and unreliable" is what my brain recalls as the summary.
@IQ52 please correct me or confirm, elaborate if you can. So in my wife's Pontiac 421 engine, although I went with a CompCams hydraulic roller cam and lifters per my local builder who did the work, and the cam specs, bore/stroke ratio and driving inclinations of my wife, small valve sizes, etc, and about a 5,600 RPM max shift point, I think they are going to be fine for her engine...
But in my 541, I'm looking for 6XX HP and as close to 700 Ft Lbs torque, FAT, FLAT, and WIDE torque output. So hydraulic anything is out, although I would have been happy with hydraulic roller cam and lifters IF NOT for Jim's warning and concerns based on his experience, and that was all I needed to know. SO..that leaves SOLID (what)...?
Solid flat tappet or Solid roller?
Because I don't think my valve spring pressures are going to be "extreme" nor the grind or lift too "wild", I figure flat tappet solid lifters are ideal, solid rollers being dismissed because of "oil starvation in stop and go traffic" of which I WILL see a LOT of. The other concern I have is more maintenance with rollers, having to rebuild them, although the number of miles between rebuilds would be a factor, oil starvation in stop and go traffic is a non starter.
So that points me to solid flat tappet cam and lifters, and I will remind you all that the larger diameter of the MOPAR/AMC lifters gives us the ability to make use of a more aggressive "roller-like" cam lobe profile.

 

[IQ52]

I'm going to say this one more time.

I just don't like hydraulic rollers, I'VE never had over all good luck with them.

Solid flat tappet lifters have always performed better for me than hydraulic flat tappets.

I have complete faith in solid rollers. You just set them up so you don't beat the crap out of them and the warning is that you just don't let them idle in the driveway for 10-15 minutes. Stop and go, varied rpms isn't going to kill them.

If I feared a solid roller, then I would use a solid flat tappet.

I'm retired. I only build engines for myself now and I don't build engines or recommend specific components for other people's engines anymore.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thanks Jim.
I am 20-20 on your lifter stance.
Retired or not, your advice, on engines and life in general, will always be treasure to me.

 

[IQ52]

At my particular V-spring Pressure specs, i intuitively "Thought" the higher Rw hardness highest quality grade ALD coated, tool steel, solid flat tappet lifters + properly matched, compatible , harder than cast iron, Billet Steel cam core should be Considerably less likely to flatten/wipe failure compared to any softer cast iron flat tappet lifter/cast iron core camshaft combo i know of & considering the simplistic, fewest Moving parts compared to any Roller lifter/cam combo Maybe
a less catastrophic, sudden fail/total motor killing mechanical thing, where frequent lash checks should catch a beginning abnormal wear issue earlier before big chunks & lots of metal powder damage effects but i have No real world experience with those $pensive steel combos...Anyone have above described billet-Steel experience ?

Tool steel lifters on an iron cam.........different results.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...s/2830288/tool-steel-lifters.html#Post2830288


One man's journey using tool steel lifters on an iron cam...................
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2402051/flat-cam.html#Post2402051

 

[70rcode]

Well,. That particular flat tappet cam lobe fail is kinda novel where the Tool Steel lifter (the questionable combo issue trigger?) survives undamaged & hints the intuitive "yep, Tool Steel is probably tougher than cast iron cam" question regardless of root cause..& with the strange lobe wear pattern, might have Failed anyway taking a normal hardenable iron lifter with it..but my quote intentionaly involves only DLC coated Tool Steel flat tappet + a compatible Steel Billet cam core combo (considerably different & harder combo compared to the failed issue link) but still helpful info on what combo will still fail...tom

 

[70rcode]

That #4 from the left cam lobe flank, photo reflection or real strange ? I've never seen a casting line show thru on any part of properly ground cam lobe ! ..Casting line are superficial & totally removed during the lobe profile grind isn't it ?