Suspension and steering components to choose....kind of lost!?

[Wietse]

Hey all, first of all a happy new year to all of you!

I am looking into getting a list together of all pieces required to upgrade/replace the suspension and steering components of my '69 Coronet R/T.
(Car specs: 440 HP, TF auto, 8-3/4" 4.10 ratio LSD/Sure grip rear axle)
I've been looking around at QA1 and PST for complete kits as much as possible to get a complete assembly together.
The plan is to make the car steer and corner like a modern car and want to get rid of the "sloppy" ride.
As i am living in the Netherlands i want to get all parts together before i start anything, if i am missing out something i can be waiting for a week(s) to get anything shipped out, which costs me cruising time
Anyway i will do the rear end first, and probably after summer i will remove the engine etc. to do the needed work on that and do the front suspension at the same time.

First of all some specs i found on the car.
Some items may not be original but i can rectify this when anything needs replacing.

# Car has no front sway bar? (not sure if it supposed to have one)
# Currently installed torsion bars thickness: 0.94"
# Steering box output shaft dia: 1-1/8" (i believe this should be 1-1/4" for R/T?)
# Rear leaf springs: 2-1/2" wide, 1-1/2" main eye and 1" rear eye. (the 2" main eye is HEMI only right?)
Rear leaf shackle lenght: 3-1/2" (bolt center to center)

Below is a "wish" list for now from what i found by looking around etc:

-Level 3 Handling kit from QA1, including shocks. (tubular K-member, control arms etc)
-1.03" Torsion bar kit from PST
-Steering linkage kit from PST
-Steering box (power) from PST
-Rear leaf spring set from PST, incl. shackles&bushings and hanger kit

Things that i still need to know is:

Is the 1.03" Torsion bar recommended by you guys for a firm cornering car? (as far as i read it does but people with first hand experience can tell)

What shaft size steering box do i need?
With that said, the steering linkage kit i would go for can be adjusted to stay at 1-1/8" but i can change all to 1-1/4" as well. (just depends what it should be from original)

From the PST steering linkage kit and the QA1 handling kit i am missing the lower ball joints.
Can the Knuckle arm ball joint be replaced by an aftermarket joint? Or am i better off buying a complete knuckle arm?
And if i should go for a complete arm, which brand would level out with the other components?

I also have an additional torsion bar? installed below my leaf springs, dunno if this is additional (aftermarket) or so? (see pictures)
And should i place this back after replacing it all?

Hope some of you guys can help out a bit here to decide what to go with, and clear some of my "'grey area's" of picking the right sizes.
I know it might be a long shot and a lot of options and variables but i really have no experience with this components to know the differences.

 

[miller]

First thing I'd do, is jerk those traction bars off, and throw them as far as I can!

 

[AR67GTX]

Wow - bunch of questions - more than I can answer but here are a few comments:

PST is a good source of rebuild parts and a complete suspension rebuild front to rear will make a big difference.

Add Steer & Gear to your list. A quick ratio pitman arm and idler arm make old Mopars steer more responsively. Also they can rebuild your steering box to police package specs with more effort and feedback. I'm not familiar with PST's steering boxes - they may have something similar.

Yes, you should have a sway bar. You need to see if your lower control arms have the bracket on them to receive the link from a sway bar. If so, you can probably go with a factory style sway bar, or you could install a HD aftermarket one. Some of the aftermarket ones can be installed on lower control arms without the factory bracket.

The 1.03 torsion bars strike me as a bad idea unless you like a really stiff ride. I think you have a 440 bars which are a good spring rate for most people with a large sway bar. If you go bigger I would think something more like a .96 bar would be a good compromise. Sort of depends what you plan to do with the car and the quality of roads over there. Some guys are going to tell you the 1.03 bars are great and others will tell you they are terrible. My 2 cents would be to go with a big front sway bar and maybe add a small rear bar (aftermarket) and stay with the .92 or go to .96 torsion bars. But others will have different opinions and it depends on your roads and intentions for the car. Good luck

 

[Wietse]

Thx for the response guys,

@miller
So they are called traction bars?
Never noticed any discomfort from them being there, assume they are there to reduce "sag" of the suspension at take off.
To me, having these installed causes the car to spin the tires instead of being pushed down to create some grip right? (correct me if i am wrong)
Because at the moment i do not need any additional front braking to make a burnout, if you floor it it stays where it is at with burning rear tires

@ AR67GTX, i know a lot of questions indeed but every suggestion helps me out big time.
You reminded me of me contacting Steerandgear.com some time ago to confirm the right Power steering gear (Part 2053) for my car.
Now looking at it, this is also a 1-1/8" output shaft which does match with my findings on the car.
I think in combination with the PST steering linkage kit will be a good and sharp steering upgrade.

No sway bar, but looking at the picture below i think the bracket with the hole is supposed to be for the sway bar, correct?
Anyway, when going for the QA1 handling kit it comes with K-member, sway bar and control arms which gives it all.

Regarding the torsion bars, too stiff is also not really wanted obviously, but i read that a car with a heavy RB engine could use them.
Although, i might instead go for the 0.96", a little more over what i am having now. (0.94")
I am not planning in any racing with the car, just want a modern style drivability.
In general the roads here in the Netherlands are very good, you will barely find a pot hole in the roads here and all is smooth tarmac.

 

[Cranky]

Traction bars (commonly called slapper bars) that 'slap' against the spring segment are the kind I do not like. Personally, if I'm going to use a traction aid like that, I want the rubber bumpers to bump against the spring eye and not behind it. Bent springs can happen with a setup like that. Also, they should have a small gap between the rubber bumpers and spring eye with the car at rest. IMO, they work better than a pinion snubber.......just food for thought.

 

[Wietse]

Traction bars (commonly called slapper bars) that 'slap' against the spring segment are the kind I do not like. Personally, if I'm going to use a traction aid like that, I want the rubber bumpers to bump against the spring eye and not behind it. Bent springs can happen with a setup like that. Also, they should have a small gap between the rubber bumpers and spring eye with the car at rest. IMO, they work better than a pinion snubber.......just food for thought.

I also questioned already if there should be some clearance between spring and rubber bumper, i assumed that the spring are a goner already anyway because of that.
On this bar it is not really obvious but on the passenger side i noticed the traction bar also is slightly bend.
So when renewing the springs, shocks, links and bushings i can leave these traction bars out?
Guess i need to reuse the 2 "square" U-bolts with a new bracket (angle iron) underneath the springs right?

 

[Cranky]

The 'square' U bolts are for mounting the traction bars and can be left off once the bars are removed...

 

[miller]

To me, having these installed causes the car to spin the tires instead of being pushed down to create some grip right? (correct me if i am wrong)

More commonly used on GMs, and Fords. They are meant to lock out spring 'wrap', with a small gap at the front bumper, limiting the spring movement.

On Mopars, the way the rear suspension is designed to work, using a pinion snubber, you do get spring wrap. Is that a good thing? Debatable, between Mopar guys, and to each their own. Will add, the springs need to be in good shape, and it all set up right.

I know on my 63 Ply I had, already set up, the rear of the car would rise, 4-5", and go, all with great results. I'll add, when I was younger, and dumber, put some of those bars on my 69 RR. Didn't hook up near as good as stock, much less adding to the snubber (closing the gap).
Why would you want to spin the tires, instead of just hittin' it?

 

[Wietse]

Thx for the tips.
I believed the square U-bolts still might have been needed.
The less stuff installed, the better.
I will not install them back once everything has been replaced, all is new, stiff and strong by that time.
Personally i am not planning on racing the car. I just want it for smooth cruising and pull a traffic light sprint from time to time.

This is the way i bought the car so reason unknown why the PO installed them.

Anyone any thoughts on the lower ball joint?
Is this replacable and reuse the knuckle arm?
Or buy a set of knuckle arms incl. Ball joint from a good brand? (But which brand to pick?)
Is a aftermarket knuckle arm as good as original?

 

[AR67GTX]

Your lower control arms are fitted for a roll bar so you have several options there - factory or aftermarket.

Lower ball joints usually wear the most so you definitely need to replace them. But I would replace all tie rod ends, ball joints, bushings, idler arm, rear spring bushings, rear spring liners, etc. You can buy replacement lower control arms with ball joints if so inclined. I think PST sells them with reinforcement plates welded on also. They will be as good or better than originals.

I would pick up a new set of lower control arm shafts also from PST as yours probably have some wear and corrosion. Anything you can do to tighten up the lower control arm attachment is a good idea but most will advise you to avoid using poly bushings in the lower control arm.

Unless you are replacing the rear springs I would buy a clamp and liner kit. You may want to replace the shackle set at the rear also. The spring leafs can be sandblasted, painted, new pads installed, new bushings installed and the springs re-clamped per original condition and work like new. Poly bushings on the rear springs are fine if so inclined.

Mopar suspension work is a bit different form GM or Ford and certainly from anything customary over there. There is a special socket needed for removal of the upper ball joints. A big impact on that big socket works well also. The torsion bars will either slip right out after the lower strut rods and the lower control arm bolts are loosened - or be stuck and have to be driven out. There are clamp on tools for driving them out to prevent dinging or gouging the bars. The bushings can be handled in a variety of ways and there are tool kits available if you want to go that route. A 12 ton press is really helpful to deal with the bushings.

 

[rrTor-Red]

Put the vendor Firm Fell to your list as well

 

[Wietse]

If i decide to go for the QA1 handling kit it will come with new upper and lower control arms with all bushings etc, a swaybar with endlinks.
And i really like that tubular K-member which looks like it will give some more room and accessibility for maintenance etc.
It is all made to work together which gives me a good feel instead of selecting all parts individual.

 

[Dennis H]

Put the vendor Firm Fell to your list as well

Firm Feel steering box. Stage 2. Straight, no slop steering.

 

[Wietse]

Put the vendor Firm Fell to your list as well

Firm Feel steering box. Stage 2. Straight, no slop steering.

Yes, Firm Feel looks good as well as they allow you to choose your style a bit more.
That would probably be my choice of steering box over the PST one.

I will check and see for a complete knuckle arm including a ball joint.
So the advice is to stay away from Polygraphite bushings on lower control arms? (As how i understand QA1 has all Polygraphite bushings in their kit)

 

[Wietse]

Something like this could be used i guess?
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-bj-0180/overview/year/1969/make/dodge/model/coronet

It's the only part not included in the QA1 handling kit and PST steering kit.
Also a set of torsion bars need to be ordered separate and that is the complete front suspension covered.

Also started thinking about the brake system...new discs, pads and drum lining i will need
First i will check if there is something growing on the money tree

 

[AR67GTX]

I'm not that familiar with aftermarket, custom suspension/K-frame kits. On the lower control arm - the big single bushing on the shaft mounting to the K-frame is the one I was advised to stick with a rubber bushing. Lots of stories of poly bushings falling apart on that shaft. There is probably a poly bushing somewhere of specific quality and type that works there but if so, I don't know about it.

I don't know of any reason that lower ball joint won't work but again I'm not familiar with QAL. I got a bit confused over you're reference to "knuckle arm" and thought you were referring to the spindle knuckle for some reason. As far as I know the ball joint is only available as the assembly with the steering link/arm. They will be in a PST front suspension rebuild kit.

I guess you understand that replacing the K-member adds a level of effort and complexity to a standard front end rebuild. You either have to pull the motor or figure out a way to support it with jacks/overhead hoist while swapping the frame out.

 

[Wietse]

I just double checked PST their kits again, indeed in their super front end rebuild kit they added the steering arm/knuckle arm incl. a ball joint.
Thing is with that kit all other items come with standard rubber bushings, and I want to go for the Poly version.
It's a bit confusing with PST, some kit comes with a certain part, the other comes without.
If you find a similar kit there is something else different again....guess it's good for sales I just want a complete set....

Anyway I can manage that I guess, I can order a steering arm separate. (as per Dodge manual they call the steering arm a knuckle arm, that's why I called it like that)
Another thing, unless they are corroded badly or damaged threads, I can reuse the U-bolts for the rear axle right?
Or better to replace due to stresses and stretch? What size would that be for a 8-3/4" axle?

The plan is to pull the motor anyway for some repairs and a paint job, also the engine bay needs cleaning and painting so the complete front end will be emptied to do it all.

 

[miller]

I can reuse the U-bolts for the rear axle right?

The correct u-bolts have a flattened area, where it fits around the housing itself. As long as their in good shape, yeah, i'd re-use 'em.

 

[AR67GTX]

I think we are getting confused over terminology. The arm that fastens to the bottom of the steering box is commonly called the pitman arm. This is different from the steering arms that contain the lower ball joint. I don't recall seeing it in a PST front end kit but maybe there is one. If you are going to all this trouble I would probably buy a quick ratio pitman arm (and new idler arm) from Firmfeel or Steer & Gear to get quicker steering.

I'm with Miller if the bolts on the rear axle are re-useable. My car is pretty clean underneath but the U-bolts on the axle were gunked up and corroded enough that by the time I got them off I didn't want to re-use them. A correct length replacement for the GTX bolts is a bit hard to find. I think I had to go to Bill Rolik Enterprises to find one close enough. I don't remember PST having a good replacement for the GTX. It's not unlikely the shackle bolts may be a bit rusty inside the worn rubber bushings - you will just have to see what you have when you get them out. Again, I think Bill Rolik has original style replacements.

http://www.billrolikenterprises.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3491296-P

 

[PST]

If you have any questions about the products we offer please let me know I would be more than happy to walk you through the various kits.

Pertaining to the 1.03 torsion bars: These are the most popular torsion bars in our product line. Just this past year we sold 198 pairs and no returns. I have driven a handful of these car with the .96 and smaller bars as well as the 1.03's. If you are looking for modern handling 1" or larger torsion bars are the way to go.

As for the Qa1 k member: What is the reason that you want it? Is there an issue with yours? If you research you will find that there is no gains in the geometry of the Qa1 K-member it will be only be in weight saving and room for headers. So if you want to be weight conscious then going with it. Second is the Qa1 lower arms are no different than stock from a geometry stand point. Now they are stronger but you can achieve similar results by installing lower control arm stiffening plates at the fraction of the cost.

If you want modern handling I would:

Rebuild the front end with either rubber or poly bushings

Replace the upper control arms with geometry corrected fixed tubular control arms or if you want the ability for more fine tuning use adjustable arms.

Install lower control arm stiffening plates

Adjustable strut for fine tuning the alignment and faster loading and unloading of the suspension in and out of turns.

1"or larger torsion bars.

Sway bar up front minimum. If you are not weight conscious stick with a solid sway bar and save the money.

For ride quality a good pair of shocks such as Bilstiens or for real fine tuning Vikings. The shocks are the biggest dictator of ride quality.

Thanks
James