Suspension and steering components to choose....kind of lost!?

[Wietse]

Hey all,

Thanks for the comments.
Yeah I know regarding the terminology, I am not really familiar with all the names etc, I learn a name from here, I read something else in the manual.
I will see and hopefully get the U-bolts of in a reusable state, otherwise will be hard to source something for me here.

Regarding the QA1 kit, I like the additional space and access of their K-member and above that is that it is a complete bolt-on kit.
I did not know regarding the geometry is unchanged compared to standard, although I have no intentions of lowering the car or prepare it for a race track.
I just want it to be a sharp driving cruiser which can easily handle some "fast" cornering.
It already includes a sway bar and 4 shocks which make it a lot easier instead of sourcing them separate.
Shocks are 1 or 2 way adjustable, think 1 way adjustability will be enough for my driving needs.

@PST: For now I am convinced to stick with the QA1 handling package regarding all these items.
Although I would like to get to know some more regarding the steering package you are offering.
The kit comes with Pitman and Idler arm, but is this kit also available with quick ratio?
Or instead I put the required parts together myself through your website, which makes no difference I guess.
Regarding the Torsion bars, are the 1.03" version not too stiff and make the car really bumpy? We have good quality road over here but I don't want to end up with a kidney fracture when getting on a bumpy road.
What about the PST (power) steering gearbox? Is this an upgraded version or just a similar version as original?
For the rear end I came up with the Poly bushing and shackle kit, set of leaf springs and the leaf spring hanger kit which I believe covers the rear end.

For me it will be a big struggle to order parts left right and centre, if I can stick to 1 or 2 vendors makes it a lot easier and cheaper due to shipping costs.
Dealing with multiple vendors, possible parts not being compatible and need to send back etc. etc. makes me need to think twice about how to go.

 

[PST]

The 1.03" bars are not overly stiff or rigid. Many of the customers that I have worked with described them as giving the car a modern feel. If your concern is bumpiness that will be dictate more so by the shocks.

We do offer a quick ratio steering linkage kit. Please see below but please beware if you purchase the fast ratio steering linkage kit you will need to purchase the steering box with the
1 &1/8" sector shafts. Links for both are below.

Steering Box:
https://p-s-t.com/i-23161965-1-1-8-power-steering-box.html#!year=1969||make=DODGE||model=CORONET R/T

Fast Ratio Steering Linkage Kit:
https://p-s-t.com/i-23158199-fast-r...tml#!year=1969||make=DODGE||model=CORONET R/T

 

[Wietse]

1.03" torsion bar it is then.
Strange i missed the fast ratio kit...regarding the steering box, this will require the steering coupler as well and the need to modify the steering shaft.
I am digging through your website to get a kit together that equals the QA1 kit i mentioned, apart from the K-Member.
So far i can get there, with lower costs obviously which makes me think if the K-member is really worth buying.
Does PST have any solutions for the steering/knuckle arm? Like a complete arm including lower ball joint to match the upgrade parts?
I also could not find any strut bars? (the bar in front of the lower control arm secured in the chassis)

For the rest i can get quite far, Bilstein shocks, tubular upper control arm, 1.03" torsion bars, lower control arm rebuild kit, sway bar (1-3/8") and the above mentioned Fast ratio steering linkage kit.
Think i might prefer a rebuild original steering box to stay away from modifying the steering shaft though.

 

[451Mopar]

Pertaining to the 1.03 torsion bars: These are the most popular torsion bars in our product line. Just this past year we sold 198 pairs and no returns. I have driven a handful of these car with the .96 and smaller bars as well as the 1.03's. If you are looking for modern handling 1" or larger torsion bars are the way to go.

As for the Qa1 k member: What is the reason that you want it? Is there an issue with yours? If you research you will find that there is no gains in the geometry of the Qa1 K-member it will be only be in weight saving and room for headers. So if you want to be weight conscious then going with it. Second is the Qa1 lower arms are no different than stock from a geometry stand point. Now they are stronger but you can achieve similar results by installing lower control arm stiffening plates at the fraction of the cost.

If you want modern handling I would:

Rebuild the front end with either rubber or poly bushings

Replace the upper control arms with geometry corrected fixed tubular control arms or if you want the ability for more fine tuning use adjustable arms.

Install lower control arm stiffening plates

Adjustable strut for fine tuning the alignment and faster loading and unloading of the suspension in and out of turns.

1"or larger torsion bars.

Sway bar up front minimum. If you are not weight conscious stick with a solid sway bar and save the money.

For ride quality a good pair of shocks such as Bilstiens or for real fine tuning Vikings. The shocks are the biggest dictator of ride quality.

Thanks
James

This is close to what I did on my '69 Coronet. R/T rear leaf springs, 0.96" bars (still fairly smooth ride), stock R/T front sway bar, poly lower control arm bushing with greasable Control Arm Pivot Shaft. Lower control arm stiffening plates. QA1 adjustable strut rods. Stock upper control arms with new rubber bushings and ball joints. RCD Bilstein shocks.
The ride is smooth, not harsh at all. I do plan to install larger sway bars front and rear. I may also change to a aftermarket upper control arm as getting modern alignment specs with the stock upper control arms is difficult.

My Charger also has the 0.96 bars, but the old KYB shocks and aftermarket sway bars and the ride is firmer, so the shocks do make a difference. I think the 1" bars would be fine with good shocks?

 

[Wietse]

Ok, i found the adjustable strut rods as wel....maybe my eyes are getting bad.
Regarding the steering arm i could not find any alternative other then a standard model.
Then again, if that lasts several years it is not that hard and expensive to replace.

Is there anything to add on the rear to be adjustable?
With a 4.10 rear axle i will need some sagging i guess to maintain grip?
Then again, my future plan is to change this to a bit lower ratio for better cruising and fuel consumption

 

[Wietse]

Ok, i found the adjustable strut rods as wel....maybe my eyes are getting bad.
Regarding the steering arm i could not find any alternative other then a standard model.
Then again, if that lasts several years it is not that hard and expensive to replace.

Is there anything to add on the rear to be adjustable?
With a 4.10 rear axle i will need some sagging i guess to maintain grip?
Then again, my future plan is to change this to a bit lower ratio for better cruising and fuel consumption

 

[wyrmrider]

hard to get a torsion bar too big that is installable
on my C bodies I run 1.06-1.08
and I run Cop Car Torsion Bars on my 74 B Body
We used to road race E-bodies what size bars> inch and an eighth?
the wider the rim the more bar and sway you need
you are working with the right people
incidentally what you are planning is to a HIGHER RATIO or TALLER RATIO (lower numerically)

 

[wyrmrider]

read through your thread
you DO need a front sway bar
and be sure to put it on BEFORE the rear one (unless you love oversteer)
you can start with the heaviest front one you can find- might be tough over there
then add a Cordoba style rear bar for a test
or go with the recommended torsion, sway, rim combo which depends on road vs rally vs gymkana or autocross-, engine used --and be sure and specify your usage
I do like the plastic interliners in the leaf springs- they prevent sticking

 

[Wietse]

Thx for sharing guys!

Strange, but my car has no sway bar at the moment, this is how i bought the car.
But for sure i will add one in the list, i am not planning to go with extreme size wheels.

I am thinking to install a 3.55 diff when rebuilding my rear axle. (will go for docterdiff parts for this)
Did come accros a pinion snubber, does this install on top of the diff housing and gets pushed against the chassis somewhere above it when hitting the throttle?
Docterdiff also has Green bearings, read these are a better alternative then original style..too much to think off.
When i will do the suspension upgrade i will open up and see first how the diff condition is, if it has been rebuild before i can just change out the gear and be happy..if not i will need all new bearings etc.
Quite some modifications were done on the engine and having a non original rear axle with a 4.10 ratio indicates a bit they might have been doing some races with this car in the past.
They did not save money on the engine for sure so it would not surprise me if there is a new LSD diff in the axle and all has been rebuild already.
If there is no excessive bearing clearances etc. i don't see the point of doing it again in the near future.

So far i have found all i need at PST for steering and suspension.
And will go for a firmfeel/steerandgear steering box.
Guess at some point i will send my wish list to PST for compatibility/fitment issues review and order the whole bunch.
Now thinking of removing the engine and complete front my main worry is becoming space.
I might need to smash my current garage and build a new one with more space before hitting this job.

 

[Wietse]

As a matter of fact, here my list:

Front suspension:
Pro touring Front Swaybar 1-3/8” SWAY8403
Bilstein High performance Shock set Front & Rear BIL7056065
G-Max Tubular Upper Control arms TUBMOPB
Performance Lower control arm Deluxe rebuild kit LCARMOPBEDLX
Adjustable Strut rods SR14366
Torsion bar Master kit 1.03” TOR4830P

Steering:
Mopar Fast Ratio steering linkage kit STLKMOPFR
-Tie rods (inner and outer)
-11/16” Solid steel adjusting sleeves
-Pitman and Idler arm, Fast ratio

Rear suspension:
Rear leaf spring shackle bushing kit (Poly) POLY41011BL
Rear leaf springs 1-1/2” main eye LEAFSR
Rear leaf spring hanger kit SPHKITDB670

All above from PST website.
I will get a set of steering arm with lower ball joint from Summit or so.
From Steerandgear i will get a rebuild steering box, part 2053 to complete it.


Just something to confirm:
For the rear leaf spring, the main eye is 1-1/2" right?? The Hemi is the only one with the 2" main eye.
I measured as best as i could and am quite sure mine is 1-1/2"

 

[rrTor-Red]

2 things here. 1. I think 1 3/8" sway bar is too big. Largest 1 1/4". 2. I'd go with Firm Feel instead of Steer and Gear. Just my opinion

 

[wyrmrider]

you need to tell us how you will be driving
as I said gymkana or autocross is different that road racing- lots of mountain curves?
wide sticky tires like more anti roll than narrow tires
too much can make the car respond "quick" or too "quick" twitchy find others doing what you are doing and ask- tougher with a B body than a Camaro or Mustang
We used to set up with the torsion bars and track tune with the sway bars
check and see what the bars and sways were on a 73 and later B body cop car- they were not to big with 15 x 7 wheels (then adjust for any length difference)
IMHO all pre 73's had too small torsion bars and sway bars- left over designs from the 14 " wheels and bias ply days
MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE find those that have built great handling B and E bodies

 

[chtampa]

Firm Feel is a reseller for steering boxes and can't provide any technical support. They parrot their information and you will be on your own. Their own products are good though.

 

[rrTor-Red]

TOTALLY disagree with your statement!

 

[miller]

Did come accros a pinion snubber, does this install on top of the diff housing and gets pushed against the chassis somewhere above it when hitting the throttle?

Yes, mounts on the top of the gearbox. Rubber bumper will be above the u-joint, and there should be a metal re-enforcement plate above it, on the floorpan.

 

[Wietse]

Thx for the input guys!

I had to mention the Pro touring sway bar is a light weight (hollow) version, which explains the size. Other option was a 1-1/8" solid sway bar.

I will not be professionally racing the car in any way.
Just want a tight steering car, be well able to handle some tight cornering and pull a drag at the traffic lights.
Mainly will be touring, going meetings etc. We have nice roads over here, most tarmac is smooth and no pot holes etc. Since the country is small, so we also have small roads and tight corners so smooth responsive (not too much) steering is a good thing to have here.
If i am not mistaken, the highest natural "mountain" in the Netherlands is 26 meter so no worry about that.
This country is like a pancake....and almost half is below sea level (good atmospheric breathing for the engine!!)
Current tires are 275/60/15 at the rear and i believe 245/60/15 front. (not 100% sure about the front)
Anyway i will stick with 15" rims and fat tires but will not go look for the extremes, if i had a chance i would go 295 rear (mainly for looks) but maintain similar size on the front.

Regarding the steering box: I noticed that with Steerandgear you get a refurbished, tight steering gearbox which also comes painted.
At Firmfeel you will get the same but will be paying additional for a paint job.
I read positive comments about both company's so in the end just compared the price and state of delivery.

@miller: So that is the way to go to get a hold on the rear axle instead of the bars i have installed at the moment.
Specially if this sits against a proper reinforced steel plate i guess.

Hope you all can figure out a bit what i am looking for.

 

[miller]

Specially if this sits against a proper reinforced steel plate i guess.

No, the rubber bumper will be a few inches from that plate, when the car is on the ground. I suppose it's all debatable, but with all that your changing, making right, the pinion snubber is part of the design. Normal way Mopar rears come from the factory. Point is, that it works, and well.
Using traction bars on a Mopar, simply kills how the set-up works. If you think about it, those bars are just 'trying' to do, what the snubbers do. But, also locks down the rear springs.

 

[451Mopar]

The "Green" wheel bearing are not really "better", they are easier as you don't have to adjust axle end play, and are usually recommended for rear disk brake conversions. There are also two different versions of the "Green" bearings. One has the flange as part of the bearing (one piece), and the other uses a seperate flange plate and a snap ring on the bearing (two piece.)
DR Diff goes into more detail here:
http://www.doctordiff.com/blog/tech-info/why-green-bearings/

As someone mentioned, the roll rates front and rear can cause the car to over or under steer. If you have stiff T-bars and front sway bar with stock rear leaf springs, the car will under steer. If you have too stiff rear springs or too large of rear sway bar the car can oversteer.

 

[Wietse]

@miller:
In that case i will be adding a pinion snubber as it supposed to be.
The traction bars i found after a while after buying the car, realising it is not an original part.
I guess a pinion snubber does the job and keeping your rear suspension fully functional, instead of traction bars which try to do the same by limiting your suspension function.

@451Mopar: I did read about the 2 different version. So with having, and staying with drum brakes at the rear i could just renew the bearings with the OEM style bearing.
Do the axles require a certain play?
I never opened a rear axle of these cars, but if i observed correctly, the drive shafts sit in the diff (bearing) and are supported by a bearing on the end. (behind the wheel so to say)
I would assume it needs a bit of play to "slide" inside the spline of the diff right?

Anyone can confirm the leaf springs have a 1-1/2" main eye? And normally only the Hemi models have a 2" main eye??

 

[chtampa]

Thx for the input guys!

I had to mention the Pro touring sway bar is a light weight (hollow) version, which explains the size. Other option was a 1-1/8" solid sway bar.

I will not be professionally racing the car in any way.
Just want a tight steering car, be well able to handle some tight cornering and pull a drag at the traffic lights.
Mainly will be touring, going meetings etc. We have nice roads over here, most tarmac is smooth and no pot holes etc. Since the country is small, so we also have small roads and tight corners so smooth responsive (not too much) steering is a good thing to have here.
If i am not mistaken, the highest natural "mountain" in the Netherlands is 26 meter so no worry about that.
This country is like a pancake....and almost half is below sea level (good atmospheric breathing for the engine!!)
Current tires are 275/60/15 at the rear and i believe 245/60/15 front. (not 100% sure about the front)
Anyway i will stick with 15" rims and fat tires but will not go look for the extremes, if i had a chance i would go 295 rear (mainly for looks) but maintain similar size on the front.

Regarding the steering box: I noticed that with Steerandgear you get a refurbished, tight steering gearbox which also comes painted.
At Firmfeel you will get the same but will be paying additional for a paint job.
I read positive comments about both company's so in the end just compared the price and state of delivery.

@miller: So that is the way to go to get a hold on the rear axle instead of the bars i have installed at the moment.
Specially if this sits against a proper reinforced steel plate i guess.

Hope you all can figure out a bit what i am looking for.

If you get to actually call and talk to Firm Feel and talk to Steer & Gear, ask some specific usage questions and the choice will be very obvious on the Steering Box. Call Firm Feel first and then Steer & Gear. Steer & Gear actually talked me out of spending money on packaged "options" I thought I had to have and explained specifically what the car would do with and without each choice. You will be wiser when you get off the phone with them. The box they built for me has some parts that I needed for clearance issues that Firm Feel didn't even know about. It was cheaper and I got it quicker on top of that and they even supplied the core.

The Firm Feel front and rear Anti-Sway Bars will bolt up like the factory ones did and if you are after an "Authentic" type of look they will make you happy on looks and performance for a street car. It really tightened up the body roll for me and I would buy them again. Both companies have their specialties.