The old 50-Fastest List - was #18-#22 really a 426/365 or a MaxWedge?

[cosgig]

Ok, I’m not going to speculate as to how or why, but this is my Dads old car, 440/6 4 speed Super Trakpak car. It was in as delivered condition when it ran 12:30 at 109 with the gear you see in the picture. The only deviation from as delivered condition made was a set of H-70-15 tires in the rear in place of the original G-70. He would also crank the torsion bars way up to help distribute the weight to the rear wheels better. That can be seen in the picture with the stickers. This time was run at the PHR Summernationals at Martin Dragway in 1970 in the Semi finals. It would’ve been the national record had he been able to back it up in the finals, but he was running in e/pure stock, and they made him either find a pair of H-70 for the front or a pair of G-70 for the rear. The G-70 was all he could borrow in the pits, and he smoked the tires on launch and lost to a 69 Mustang.

there is much speculation as to what was done to the motor in this car at the factory, as he worked with a lady whose husband was a Chrysler exec, who had it “followed” down the assembly line. My Dad never so much as even turned a wrench on this car, we lived in the flat house you see in the pictures, without even a garage. He was not mechanically inclined so to speak. Why it was so fast, especially for a convertible, is now lost to time, as the car hasn’t been seen since 1973, when it was spotted up on blocks with the motor pulled. Just a little story as to how fast these cars could run.

 

[dvw]

My first car and first engine swap was with a 66 Belvedere II. Offy 360 intake.

Just to show you how bad this intake is. We took a hopped up 440 Duster, 305 H Comp cam, fenderwell headers, iron heads, 3.91. Ran like 12.20's. We replaced the intake with a Performer RPM, 11.50's. No other changes. I know the RPM is good, but not that good. That Offy had to be worse than a factory unit.
Doug

 

[gooser]

if you talk to bob k mister 6pk he will tell you if the car was tuned the carbs were tuned the 6 pack cars could run those numbers back in the day a lot of guys didn't know how to tune the 6 pack carbs

 

[Mike Gaines]

Just a few thoughts that come to mind in the discussion of all of this...
What an amazing era the "muscle car era" was! While there has been a natural competitiveness for speed since the beginning of the motorized vehicle, motorcycles, cars, etc, the pinnacle was the 60s and early 70s, as far as a widespread, focused aspect of performance being a or the major selling factor.
1964 saw the meteoric rise of the muscle car, the performance, price, parameters, and marketing of the 64 Pontiac GTO being a standard bearer for that niche.
Generally speaking, by 1972 it was over. There was an across the board plunge in compression ratio and horsepower in 1972, and although there were mods that could recapture the lost performance, turn key "as is" performance had taken a nosedive.
Another thing that comes to mind are the sensory experiences that go along with the muscle cars of that era. After suffering through roughly 20 years of abysmal, anemic performance, from roughly 1975 to 1995, performance came charging back, thanks to technology being able to satiate the economy and emissions requirements for American car manufacturers, and the "muscle cars" of the last 15 years are impressive.
BUT
For me, there are so many tactile sensations that go along with piloting a well tuned high performance, multiple carbureted, manual gear selected muscle car that is lost in many or most of the performance cars of today. I'm not disparaging modern muscle in any way, it's just a different experience.
And that takes me back to the point of this thread. Muscle cars of the 60s and early 70s and the performance that they actually produced on any given day at any given location depended, and depends, a LOT on the skill of the DRIVER, and also the ability to tune to get the most performance in any given situation. Selection of the right mix of aftermarket performance parts, when done right, can return big improvements in performance. That is something that I really like about ownership, stewardship, driving, racing, and wrenching on cars of the 60s and 70s. It's a very personal experience, and the results in many cases are a reflection of the person who does that work, makes those choices, shifts the gears, turns the screwdrivers and wrenches.
I respect and appreciate the blistering performance and reliability of today's performance cars, making the experience of what all of that is available to so many people, but for me, the kaleidoscope of what it means to own and drive a muscle car of the 60s and 70s is the best example of what the muscle car craze was all about.

I rest my case...

 

[biomedtechguy]

I rest my case...

View attachment 881200 View attachment 881201

and YOU sir, and others, share your experience with people like me, and help me avoid some of the mistakes, build on the experience you earned, and make the "car thing" a much more enjoyable experience.
Mike Gaines
everyone on the forum, especially here, for your help and patience!

 

[mopar blood]

i had an original 69 1/2 Bee w/slicks and cheap headers went 12.47

 

[biomedtechguy]

i had an original 69 1/2 Bee w/slicks and cheap headers went 12.47

View attachment 881209

Those are SO FINE! It would be a tough choice between an A-12 Roadrunner, my having a 70 V-code and loving all of the "Warner Bros Roadrunner and Wile E Coyote" stuff that goes along with that, and the "beep beep" horn, but I have to say the Bee of the same era, especially with rear quarter side scoops, is one fine looking body style, especially with the
A-12 hood!
When I put my Passon 5 speed in, I went from 3.54 to the 4.10 rear end gears that were STANDARD on the A-12s. It's awesome for performance, but I'll say-without my .68 5th gear, you have to be REALLY dedicated to performance to drive a car with a 4.10 R&P rear end gear and a 1:1 final drive. For those who daily drove their A-12s, or any other car of that era with a 4.10, well this sums it up:
I'm eternally grateful for the A-12! It is the father of the V-code, and my 70 V-code is so much fun to own and drive, I had no idea how much more powerful and impressive with the hood up they are than the factory 4bbl.

 

[fratzog lover]

Something like this is really hard to gauge. 50 years ago tire tech. was different so was fuel. i've had 440's that ran much better than others. 340's etc.. also the drivers. Ronnie Sox proved it! to be +or- a second is alot.
i had a 66 Hemi BelvedereI 4 speed all stock fresh rebuilt(stock) went 14.70 was starving for fuel. after 2 passes . came back next week with an electric fuel pump. and slicks ,click off 13.54

Unless Detroit had balanced and blueprinted their engines, the times and ET numbers are what there were. Which is all over the place

 

[33 IMP]

My A12 was my daily driver, and weekend racer, for at least five years, with a daily commute of 20+miles to work. 3700rpm, all the way, on the san bernardino fwy toward L.A.(sure can't do that today!).Mine still had manifolds and complete factory exhaust, and it wasn't hard to live with that rpm, we were used to it. Loud exhaust is what made that kind of rpm unpleasant.​

 

[biomedtechguy]

3700rpm, all the way, on the san bernardino fwy

Not sure how you were at 3,700, curious what your speed was?
With 25.5" tall 315/35/17s and a 3.54 R&P I turned 3,500 at 72 mph.

 

[33 IMP]

Not sure how you were at 3,700, curious what your speed was?
With 25.5" tall 315/35/17s and a 3.54 R&P I turned 3,500 at 72 mph.

70mph plus, at 4:30 am, on the way to work, with the factory 4.10s, fmvb, and a 3500 converter.
Riverside raceway staging lanes, late eighties

 

[biomedtechguy]

70mph plus, with the factory 4.10s, and a 3500 converter.

Your rear tires must have been a good bit taller with more roll out than mine overall.
Way cool car and time of life! Thanks for the pic!