torsion bars, height

[6T5]

My 65 Satellite had a 318, now a 426. I'm wanting to raise the front end up a fair amount for the superstock/old school look.

Do the small block bars usually have enough tension to do that...or do I need bigger bars?

I'd just go out and crank them up and try except that the car is tore apart and I'm trying to use the down time to get parts ordered....do several things at once.

Thanks

 

[sleepar]

Larger bars for a stiffer spring rate rather than max out the light ones. The factory had a color code and the aftermarket does size and some are clocked for a lower ride some are hollow some solid. Just to compensate for the weight keeping everything else stock find out what came stock on that car and motor and UN less the rear is same some times the bigger motors had an extra leaf or too and sway bars... that case you order a matched set front and rear and sway bars all around some times the bushings in the front end exaggerates the droop and the larger bars will wear on that lower bushing more so poly bushing are some thing to look at..there's a lot out there pro touring wise more power and more weight =more body roll then sub frame connectors it can ratchet out of control but I bite and get you thinking what you're really wanting then brakes are bigger by the time you're done its 1/2 a E/C body in boxes coming from fedex witch is what the huge motors were designed for

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318 to 426 is a bit of a loaded question.... the generic 318 car except the 426 motor and trans would be a shopping cart with just stiff bars and no other changes add up the age and miles on the springs and bushings the way I look at it is I don't want to invent anything new just replicate what the Chrysler engineers did on my '67 coronet I'm building it to what a 68 340 charger would have been stock around a 4door body because I like the total package and its paying homage to a coronet parts car I parted to build my first project coming full circle back to basics...the parts car

 

[miller]

Just a couple things...

The dif diameter torsion bars were designed for dif engine weights, just like from the 318 vs the 426. Dif spring 'rates' are tossed in, too. That's the beauty of the dif diameters, making it easier to customize the front suspension as you want it.
The torsion bars should be marked, L R, or part numbers, and need to be installed in the correct sides.

You do not want to adjust the height of the front end, without the weight of the motor/trans in place. Nothing will be right.

 

[MarPar]

You do not want to adjust the height of the front end, without the weight of the motor/trans in place. Nothing will be right.

does this mean you want to adjust the t-bar bolts with the car on the ground and the full weight on the suspension?

 

[sleepar]

Yes start them out off the ground about an inch once the arm touches just to take out the slack and some so the front end doesn't drop all the way to the floor to get them started use a water level made from a clear tube with marks from one side that looks good to you then go to an alignment shop to set camber/ caster /toe at that ride hight and make sure nothing rubs while turning with brakes applied

 

[miller]

does this mean you want to adjust the t-bar bolts with the car on the ground and the full weight on the suspension?

Yeah on the full weight...needs the weight, for the torsion bars 'spring' to set tension on.

Just like sleepar says, if new installs, wheels off the ground, just to get some tension on the bars.

If you have a service manual, or a good set of mopar alignment specs, it will give you a measurement from the ground to ? (can't remember exactly where) a point on the frame or the like. You simply adjust the torsion bar bolts, until you have that measurement. Of course, that's stock set-up, but a good starting point, and done with the complete weight of the car on the front end.

 

[hunt2elk]

I'm just starting to fiddle with this on my Charger project. Never heard of using a water level, but that is a great idea. How close to even are the adjusting bolts supposed to be when everything is done? It seems at this point on my car, one is in about 1/2" farther than the other. I thought I had the lines on the end of the torsion bars oriented the same, or does that not really matter?

 

[MarPar]

Thanks for the input, guys.

my situation is not a new install...

My wheels have mega neg camber right now, and I reckon it's from me lowering the t-bars last year...so im going to crank them up and try and get the neg camber out of the tires.

for reference, I took a pic of the page in the FSM. sorry, it's not the greatest pic

 

[6T5]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone want to take a guess regarding my original question?

Do we think my smaller/LA/318 bars have enough snuff to raise the front end...........or am I going to just twist, twist and twist with no real effect?

Trying to do several things at once and make use of down time.

Thanks very much

 

[fwi]

You will only be able to raise the front by about 2" by cranking the bars.

 

[sleepar]

I'm just starting to fiddle with this on my Charger project. Never heard of using a water level, but that is a great idea. How close to even are the adjusting bolts supposed to be when everything is done? It seems at this point on my car, one is in about 1/2" farther than the other. I thought I had the lines on the end of the torsion bars oriented the same, or does that not really matter?

Depends on how worn the bushings are and the weight of the power steering and driver the age of the spring and how accurate the bars and sockets are clocked ........ 1/2" more on the drivers side is about right considering its on the heavy side of the car with the crown of the road

 

[6T5]

thanks fwi

 

[hunt2elk]

Depends on how worn the bushings are and the weight of the power steering and driver the age of the spring and how accurate the bars and sockets are clocked ........ 1/2" more on the drivers side is about right considering its on the heavy side of the car with the crown of the road

It is the drivers side that is turned in more. Everything is brand new, including the .96 torsion bars. I never even thought about the possibility of the clocking being off. You make it sound like I shouldn't be concerned about it though?

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Thanks guys.

Does anyone want to take a guess regarding my original question?

Do we think my smaller/LA/318 bars have enough snuff to raise the front end...........or am I going to just twist, twist and twist with no real effect?

Trying to do several things at once and make use of down time.

Thanks very much

Things did get kind of sidetracked all of a sudden around here lol. From what I understand, the bigger the motor the bigger diameter the torsion bars were. I think the Hemi cars came with .92, so if I was you i would use those or the Mopar Performance .96.

 

[sleepar]

it's all stamped steel you can split the lower controol arm and none it in to tight in it up and weld it back together if they are too sloppy as long as you drive them all the way forward once they twist they won't move flex to the bump stops the precision is in the upper arms and strut rod... you're tight at 1/2" more thread on the heavy side as long as you aren't all the way up and bottoming the bolt out because the bars are wet noodles

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I have the stock 318 with hotchkiss 1 1/8 bars and my grease fittings for the inner tie rod barely clears I don't have them cranked up and they are clocked for a lower ride height that gives me a sweet spot and the sway bars front and rear with the sub frame connectors it's like on rails kind of like a truck by no means a marsh mellowed car it was this is my second coronet and a had a 190 mph fairlane 4 door.... I worry that when the weeks come off the ground the adjusters may loosen up so I'm going to find some jam nuts I'm at the turning point where I'm just putting it all back to gethher I have the stiffness springs all around and the lightest motor I can get I worked at a spring shop and know suspensions brakes well

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My 65 Satellite had a 318, now a 426. I'm wanting to raise the front end up a fair amount for the superstock/old school look.

Do the small block bars usually have enough tension to do that...or do I need bigger bars?

I'd just go out and crank them up and try except that the car is tore apart and I'm trying to use the down time to get parts ordered....do several things at once.

Thanks

Any bars will work depends on you're preference on feel and look and functionality.. you have heavy motor light bars great for drag they will transfer the weight to the rear fastest through the range but totally suck as an auto cross the *** will come up and get light in the corners.... there's so mutch out there how do you plan to drive it you will know once you play with it there is no definitive answer

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If it's a straight line car small bars (slant 6 swinger)..... the stiff bars corner better than a vette ( hemi cuda) try a few so you know is the only way

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One thing about the energy system poly boots is they are a bitch to get fully seated and for the rear running the caltracs I'm reaming out a the poly bushings to accept the steel bar rather than the aluminum deal they come with and putting a section of fuel line over the slapper pin to give some

 

[1970GTX]

My new MP .96 bars were a large improvement over the stock .92 bars which were also 44 years old. I was able to lower the front a tad and still have a stiffer ride. ( before and after pics.)

 

[miller]

Does anyone want to take a guess regarding my original question?

Do we think my smaller/LA/318 bars have enough snuff to raise the front end...........or am I going to just twist, twist and twist with no real effect?

Back in the day, Chrysler engineers were fairly on their game. Plenty of reasons they came up with different diameters on the torsion bars. There's another post on torsion bars, that shows a chart, for all applications. Good guide line.

But, some of the guys brought up, that it also depends on what your using the car for...daily driver, or other...

Also better get a good idea how to do it, if your going to change out the bars. There's only one 'right' way. I've seen guys get hurt, by not having any idea what they were doing. (One of those 'what do I do now, maw')

 

[ilm65]

6T5, you're saying you have "smaller/LA/318 bars"? The 318 in a 65 Satellite would've been a "poly" 318, not an LA--two completely different engines and the poly-spherical would be very close in weight to a 426 big block. My 65 Satellite was originally a "poly" 318 and is now a 440; I re-used the 318 torsion bars and have them adjusted to 27" measured through the center of the hub from ground to the top arch of the wheel well. I added a front stabilizer bar from Firm Feel and have absolutely no handling problems.

 

[6T5]

Thanks ilm65..........you are absolutely right, I completely forgot about the poly. (It was setting on the sellers garage floor when I bought this car ... I looked right at it...a factory dual quad motor no less).

So I'm glad to here from you......your experience is exactly where I'm going with this. Thanks for the measurements too.

Very cool, thank you.

BTW - nice car