Turbo BB?

[Sweet5ltr]

You guys are way to complicated. 1 turbo, 1 carb, no intercooler. At that low boost just run off the BOV spring. Get some low performance truck manifolds, turn them around backwards (left to right swap). Plumb it up blow through E-85. Minimal timing. spend money on a good e-85 blow thru carb and get a good fuel pump. Run 20-23 total timing at 10 psi and have fun.
Doug

Hey Doug, I know, I am trying to be as simple as possible! Only issue is I can't run anything short of a custom header for a front mount, as FEETS on another board has done all the guesswork for me as I went over his build. I am looking at running a boost controller from MSD to retard the timing. I am also going to use a boost referenced fuel regulator, which will be somewhat offset by me selling my current fuel regulator from mallory. To me, it seems maybe even simpler, as I can have the welding/muffler shop fab most of the work for me and really that was the single biggest headache me and my father were going to have. The car has ample amounts of room under the rear, as the fuel cell is in the trunk and it is running SS springs with 30" ET Streets. I can probably trade my 4.10 rear with Richmond locker for a 3.23 with a limited slip' any day of the week with it being an 8 3/4. This would give me a near perfect gear ratio for a turbo build with the tire size I run and make it enjoyable to cruise on the interstate. Will a 2.5" charge pipe be adequate, from the turbo intake exit to the carb? I will be running the largest downpipe possible, possibly 5" exiting the turbo. Okay, I am going with a TiAL BOV for sure as it is made in the USA. Any regards to the waste gate? I am looking at a used (new) turbonetics 42mm 'racegate' on craigslist which seems like a bargain at only $180 with a $420 retail. Should I jump on this?

 

[dvw]

Hey Doug, I know, I am trying to be as simple as possible! Only issue is I can't run anything short of a custom header for a front mount, as FEETS on another board has done all the guesswork for me as I went over his build. I am looking at running a boost controller from MSD to retard the timing. I am also going to use a boost referenced fuel regulator, which will be somewhat offset by me selling my current fuel regulator from mallory. To me, it seems maybe even simpler, as I can have the welding/muffler shop fab most of the work for me and really that was the single biggest headache me and my father were going to have. The car has ample amounts of room under the rear, as the fuel cell is in the trunk and it is running SS springs with 30" ET Streets. I can probably trade my 4.10 rear with Richmond locker for a 3.23 with a limited slip' any day of the week with it being an 8 3/4. This would give me a near perfect gear ratio for a turbo build with the tire size I run and make it enjoyable to cruise on the interstate. Will a 2.5" charge pipe be adequate, from the turbo intake exit to the carb? I will be running the largest downpipe possible, possibly 5" exiting the turbo. Okay, I am going with a TiAL BOV for sure as it is made in the USA. Any regards to the waste gate? I am looking at a used (new) turbonetics 42mm 'racegate' on craigslist which seems like a bargain at only $180 with a $420 retail. Should I jump on this?

We run a Chinese waste gate. Quality was terrible. had to replace the valve guide and valve job it before it was functional. He also runs an MSD with all the bells and whistles. Don't think it's absolutely necessary unless you're going to race it. It's a lot of plumbing to mount them in the rear. Expensive also if you run stainless to the Turbos. It would be cheaper and easier to do a small block.
Doug

 

[Supershafts]

The e85 can become a issue if you don't use the car all the time, you would be far better off with a meth injection to offset the inter.

It is way easier as you'll see putting it under the car than under the hood and dealing with all the plumbing that needs to be done and remembering to leave access to things that need to be.
Less weight on the nose, and the charge pipe will bleed off some heat.
Plus you keep the better breathing headers and just add in a merge and start at the back with a mount, the only real issue is the intake which you can tuck up against the trunk floor in the qtr behind the wheel well and put a small shield directing water down from the intake side and run a air filter sock over the filter.
.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

We run a Chinese waste gate. Quality was terrible. had to replace the valve guide and valve job it before it was functional. He also runs an MSD with all the bells and whistles. Don't think it's absolutely necessary unless you're going to race it. It's a lot of plumbing to mount them in the rear. Expensive also if you run stainless to the Turbos. It would be cheaper and easier to do a small block.
Doug

I am not going to run stainless. Probably standard aluminum as ran in exhaust systems via the local muffler shop, as I don't plan on tossing any mirrors under it any time soon. I have been doing a lot of research on the LS1 forums, and if those guys can get their systems done for $500 from the header collectors->rear mount turbo->to throttle body with their limited clearance, this should be a walk in the park for the shop. I just need to look under the car, I don't care if the pipe is showing as it is not a 'sleeper'.

My question is, what size charge pipe is necessary? 2.5"? 2.75"? I would prefer the smallest tube as it would be easier for the shop to bend and shape. Or should I just run 3" all the way for the charge pipe, and order a piece or two of 90* mandrel bent tubing online for them? I actually may piece together the tubing underhood with stainless, and just have them run standard tubing from the rear to front on the cold side.

 

[Supershafts]

I would stay with 3" for the charge pipe, unless the turbo needs 3.5" and use AL tube from the turbo to the carb hat this way it'll also lose some heat.

Im doing my daytona and dak rear exhaust mounted, and after laying both out it is way easier and less bends and welds compared to either of them being under the hood.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Okay, right now a few misc. items I am looking at is cam sizing and rear gears.

Does anyone think I could run the .590 solid I currently have? I am not looking to break any records here with RWHP. It would save me around $200, and with that, I would probably spend it on a;

S400SX4 Turbo
http://shop.turbodaves.com/S400SX4-75mm-T-6-132A-R-500-1050HP-FREE-SHIPPING-171702.htm

It seems like a fairly good deal.. I would only be running around 8psi. It's going to cost me around $400 by the time the on3performance china turbo would ship, so I feel I would be decades ahead with something like this in performance.

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Any good links to figure out all the flanges I may need on the intake/exhaust side? I am under the impression, I may need 2x 5" V-clamps, T-6 flange for exhaust, possibly a 3" v-clamp for the intake outlet. Is Ebay my best option for these?

Specifically, what would be the best way/steel thickness to solidly mount this turbo, as it weighs around 50#? I know some of these turbo's can reach 1400-1500*.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

There's a lot of ideas being thrown around here. Have you decided on anything yet?

I had a turbo on my fox Mustang once upon a time...street car. After breaking a block or two and not wanting to ante up to aftermarket, decided to rebuild the car as a nice n/a driver. You been to www.theturboforums.com? All your answers are there.

W/o getting into specifics of the engine, I wouldn't recommend a stick shift.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

There's a lot of ideas being thrown around here. Have you decided on anything yet?

I had a turbo on my fox Mustang once upon a time...street car. After breaking a block or two and not wanting to ante up to aftermarket, decided to rebuild the car as a nice n/a driver. You been to www.theturboforums.com? All your answers are there.

W/o getting into specifics of the engine, I wouldn't recommend a stick shift.

Lots of idea's, as I am going along. Using this thread more or so as a reference and I have been scouring the turbo forums; that is where I have found most of my information.

I had a foxbody with a panhandle performance small block. I probably would have went the turbo route today if I still had the car but stayed at low boost and relied on the chassis over the motor.

It is insane that their is hardly anyone with F/I Mopars with over 440 cubic inches. They are a dime-a-dozen for the other cookie cutter brands. I don't see me stroking it, porting the heads, or going to a .700 lift roller cam so this to me is the best alternative. May only be able to run 6-8psi for my power goals.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

That's kinda the prob. Your power goals are pretty low for how much displacement you have. That's a whole lotta work for what, another 150 hp? Might as well shoot for 750 or so (which doesn't seem farfetched at 10psi or so assuming a good fuel system)...nitrous would be a whole lot easier.

I hear ya on 'no one doing it'. I hate to say it, and don't mean to offend anyone reading this, but I have a hard time believing that some of the members here and in the Mopar community still debate iron vs aluminum heads. On the other hand, there is a reason why you don't see big cube blown engines...aftermarket mopar blocks are expensive, and you can make a ton of unusable power on the street w/ a relatively mild 500" combo. For the race only crowd, most are nostalgia or class-specific that don't allow power adders.

That being said, I'd recommend a cast manifold on one side w/ a crossover into a simple 'log' manifold on the other. Shouldn't be hard to fab or cost to have built. Not 'pretty', but will work. I personally don't like e85 for a street'ish car that will see a lot of miles...ergo, get an intercooler. Stay away from chinese 'gates...that's the last thing you want to fail.

One last thing...what are your rings gapped at?

 

[dvw]

Has anyone here actually used E-85? We drive this car every week or two. When its put away for the winter it gets gasoline run through it. Zero issues. The .590 cam would be a terrible choice, 108 LCA. I agree it's time to search some turbo forums and do some planning BEFORE you start. Why build a 500" motor with the wrong cam? Why build all the extra plumbing because it's more difficult to fit parts? Turbo stuff isn't rocket science but it does take the right combination of parts. A properly done 500" turbo motor would be totally useless on the street. At the track it would be an 8 second piece easy. Is your car set-up to go that quick? Can you say tire spin? Just my 2 cents.
Doug

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Has anyone here actually used E-85? We drive this car every week or two. When its put away for the winter it gets gasoline run through it. Zero issues. The .590 cam would be a terrible choice, 108 LCA. I agree it's time to search some turbo forums and do some planning BEFORE you start. Why build a 500" motor with the wrong cam? Why build all the extra plumbing because it's more difficult to fit parts? Turbo stuff isn't rocket science but it does take the right combination of parts. A properly done 500" turbo motor would be totally useless on the street. At the track it would be an 8 second piece easy. Is your car set-up to go that quick? Can you say tire spin? Just my 2 cents.
Doug

DVW,
I will probably just source a Mopar 528 solid. 240* dur/112lsa as it has real slow ramps and will last a decade under the hood on the street. I have just heard people on other forums running radical N/A cams and having good results. I know generally, the wider the LSA the better and you always shoot for a 112-114LSA in F/I applications. 500+RWHP is beyond any stroker 500ci wedge on the street, you are talking max wedge port indy ez heads, .650+ solid roller, indy single plane, and 1050 dominator. I think that is FAR less street friendly than a turbo RB could ever be. These cars don't have lightweight 'anything' really, and most all the parts require ample amounts of additional power to get it to the wheels. It's hard to get the turbo aspect far, as it would be nice to actually view in person a BB turbo Mopar but I am sure their are vast amounts of even 426 hemi cars in comparison. The car isn't a strip only car, but is set up completely for the strip for the 10 second range (via mopar chassis manual) other than a roll cage which just wasn't my liking for a street car. 550-600rwhp would be great, if 6psi gets me their, then that is even better. I was thinking about going with a blower, but honestly, it would cost about 2-3 times as much as a turbo to setup and really would be far less street friendly. Other alternatives are a paxton supercharger, but are you really getting your money's worth? I would still need to do literally everything other than tubing as a turbo. Kind of get what I am saying? Do you think E85 would be a better alternative for the Turbo than gas?

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Has anyone here actually used E-85? We drive this car every week or two. When its put away for the winter it gets gasoline run through it.
Doug

I have friends that run it. My only issue w/ it is limited range. Can't buy it everywhere. For a limited street application where you don't go outside a certain radius of the pump it's great...but I'd be hesitant to take a road trip w/ it. That's my only issue.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

E85 C&S carb w/hat/fuel log/referenced fuel pressure reg;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-and-S-800...Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d94e7cf3&vxp=mtr

Good deal? I'm thinking the carb hat is $200+, carb is around $700 new, log is around $100, boost referenced regulator is atleast $100+. I have researched E85 in the past. Could I run 10.25:1 with this turbo on E85 (I know E85 is near 110 race fuel)? If I can, I may jump on this carb setup, even if it needs to be tuned it will save me $400+ to get my carb converted over.. We have a few pumps locally in my area. The car only attends the weekend cruise nights currently that are around 25-30 miles round trip. 12 gallon fuel cell. I believe I have found a station locally that has E85, going to give them a call.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

DVW,
500+RWHP is beyond any stroker 500ci wedge on the street, you are talking max wedge port indy ez heads, .650+ solid roller, indy single plane, and 1050 dominator.

Certainly hope not. I'm hoping to approach it w/ a 440 w/ a mild/reasonable idle. Prob w/ most BBM imo is too small of heads and a concentration on 'torque'.

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E85 C&S carb w/hat/fuel log/referenced fuel pressure reg;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-and-S-800...Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d94e7cf3&vxp=mtr

Good deal? I'm thinking the carb hat is $200+, carb is around $700 new, log is around $100, boost referenced regulator is atleast $100+. I have researched E85 in the past. Could I run 10.25:1 with this turbo on E85 (I know E85 is near 110 race fuel)? If I can, I may jump on this carb setup, even if it needs to be tuned it will save me $400+ to get my carb converted over.. We have a few pumps locally in my area. The car only attends the weekend cruise nights currently that are around 25-30 miles round trip. 12 gallon fuel cell. I believe I have found a station locally that has E85, going to give them a call.

If that's the case, hell yes use 85. Low boost w/ your comp will be fine as long as you don't get greedy.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Check out the mopar muscle mag dyno tests.. You'll be surprised what exactly it takes. I know it can be done, but it isn't anything IMO street friendly (not it terms of radical) but overall dependability due to extreme valve spring pressures/roller lifter and rocker bearing stress/etc. You would need to build 650HP in the motor, which given the 18-20% power loss would net you a little over 500RWHP.

It would be nice to not need to mess around with the heads and compression. This package deal would save me quite a bit of money overall as well. Scratching off numerous 'nickel and dime' parts.

Just found out the boost referenced regulator alone cost $220 for the C&S model. Carb hat is around $220-280 depending on exactly what model it is, fuel log is another $100, carb is an easy $700. Lines, fittings, another $20+. $1,200+ worth of carb products for $700. Could easily sell my current carb for $225 at a minimum. Would be into it $475.. Great savings for me.

 

[19polara64]

For those who know nothing about E85 (like me LOL). http://www.powerblocktv.com/two-minute-tech/2min-124/convert-your-carb-for-e85

 

[Sweet5ltr]

For those who know nothing about E85 (like me LOL). http://www.powerblocktv.com/two-minute-tech/2min-124/convert-your-carb-for-e85

It actually seems like a perfect fuel for the turbo. Will keep temps cooler, while building more power.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Check out the mopar muscle mag dyno tests.. You'll be surprised what exactly it takes. I know it can be done, but it isn't anything IMO street friendly (not it terms of radical) but overall dependability due to extreme valve spring pressures/roller lifter and rocker bearing stress/etc. You would need to build 650HP in the motor, which given the 18-20% power loss would net you a little over 500RWHP.

Mopar Muscle? Ha...no thanks. Last place I'd go for anything technical. Part of the reason why most mopar guys are 10-15 years behind, methinks.

Assuming 15% through the TKO = 575. Not unrealistic.

You're on the right track. Looked at any compressor maps for mass flow at your desired boost level? (Might be interesting)

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Mopar Muscle? Ha...no thanks. Last place I'd go for anything technical. Part of the reason why most mopar guys are 10-15 years behind, methinks.

Assuming 15% through the TKO = 575. Not unrealistic.

You're on the right track. Looked at any compressor maps for mass flow at your desired boost level? (Might be interesting)

Turbo I'm looking at;
http://shop.turbodaves.com/S400SX4-75mm-T-6-132A-R-500-1050HP-FREE-SHIPPING-171702.htm

I have plenty of cubes to spin it'. Will make plenty of power at 6-8psi IMO. Not sure how to read the compressor maps exactly, just an 'uneducated' estimate.

Unless its SBM related, us BBM fans are still stuck in the 70's for the most part including aftermarket coverage and support.

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Here is a crazy question..

I could run 32* timing locked out. I know a boost timing retard box is optimal. Do I need to incorporate a boost retard box for 32* timing total when running 6-8psi? Just not sure if I need to pull any more timing as most N/A guys are running 36-38*. I have read, most guys with big block single turbo applications don't pull timing until 4-5psi and it's more or so 1* per/psi after. This would only be 1-3* timing pulled. Cost savings could purchase a fuel pump or the bov & wg. Remember, I will be running E85 if I win that Ebay listing..

Any possible idea's on what plugs to run with these Edelbrock heads for F/I? I know they require a few steps down (colder) plugs other than N/A. Would E85 make a difference, should I stick with a hotter plug as it takes more fire to ignite than normal gasoline?

 

[dvw]

A few ideas. First the boost referenced regulator simply has a port on the atmosphere side of the diaphragm. easy on just about any regulator. Normally a small block with iron heads likes around 35. We found at mild boost, 10-12, we only needed to run 20 total. On the initial dyno hits when we couldn't get it rich enough .Also the converter was so loose it stalled to 5300. Even then the 360 made 475@5600 to the wheels at 9 psi.
Doug