Turbo / supercharge stock truck 413?

[HT413]

Hey guys, just thinking outloud here, so bear with me. I've been thinking an awful lot about replacing my stock 72 truck 413 in my 69 belvedere. But the more I think about it, the more I think the previous owner planned on installing some boost, so I thought maybe I might consider it myself. (2 owners ago, really. the previous owner only had it for a few months and didnt know much about the car.)

It has a 413 truck motor that I blueprinted to be about 7.0 compression ratio. Stock 906 heads, torker II 440, stock heavily dished cast pistons about 0.067 in the hole and stock forged crank and i'm thinking LY rods based on the dampener. It has a comp cam Extreme Energy XE268H with OEM rockers. (I have ductile iron adjustables on the shelf.). Also has a MSD 6AL ignition, way overkill if he just planned on keeping it stock. He minitubbed it, installed a 4 link, 3.23 sure grip, 727 forward manual valvebody and i just put on some 12.5x30 ET streets.

So what do you guys think? I've never welded so a turbo seems pretty out of my league, but I was thinking maybe a roots or centrifugal type that mounts under the hood with some methanol / water injection Maybe add some CNC ported stealth heads or maybe a set of Eddie's to raise the compression a bit and get some flow.

My plan is to race it half dozen weekends a year but mostly drive locally (to cruise nights and to school to show my students - i'm a teacher and work 5 minutes away).

What do you guys think? Good idea with the cast pistons? I've read a bunch of guys online boosting with cast pistons, but maybe they're all on the edge of blowing things up? Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks

Dan

 

[Moparmatt72]

Could check out the turbo forums they have a mopar section. As far as turbos you can use the cast exhaust manifolds and have the turbo flange welded to them, course it also depends on how much power you want to make. The 7:1 seems a bit on the low side you can bump it up to 8-8.5:1. Blowers are nice but they take power to make power where turbos don't plus have better street manners I think due to not always being in boost course that also depends on what size turbo(s) you want to use. There are to many pluses for either one its just a personal choice. I prefer turbos cause you can make a total sleeper until you get on it.
Cast pistons will limit your power limit, forged is always better, there are guys on the other forums making upto 1000hp with a steel crank h beams rods and forged pistons.

 

[HT413]

Lol, 1000 hp is about 400-500 more than I need. I always figured on building a car for the low 11's range. Good point about the superchargers taking power, i just figured they'd be easier to bolt on. Food for thought, I'll def checkout the turbo forums, didnt realize they had a mopar section. I think I can get the cr up to 8ish w smaller cc heads and thinner gasket. Thanks.

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Just for reliability's sake I'd recommend forged pistons anf the entire rotating assembly balanced before running boost either way.

As far as what you use to make the boost either way could get you where you wanna be as far as your horsepower goal so personally I'd go with a procharger centrifugal supercharger. Sure they use power to make power but for the power it would make that's pretty much nothing, and you won't have the turbo lag. Also with the centrifugal supercharger you can run an intercooler like you would with a turbo, assuming you have the room, which would be nice. This is basically the setup I'll be going with on my future 440 build for my Charger :icon_thumleft:

But if you would rather go the turbo route you could really get fancy and run twin turbos, one off each manifold, to cut down on the amount of turbo lag and just look badass lol. Methanol injection would be a good idea but not necessarily needed depending on how much boost you plan on running

Just my $.02 :icon_thumleft:

 

[67 coronet]

you may want to price out some of this thought first.then you may realise it would be the same price to build another motor,at the power level you want,while you are driving the car.then swap the motors and be done.

 

[HT413]

you may want to price out some of this thought first.then you may realise it would be the same price to build another motor,at the power level you want,while you are driving the car.then swap the motors and be done.

Great point. I was figuring on a n/a stroker of some sort maybe 451, 400/470 or maybe a 440/500 and I figured it would cost 7 grand or so then I got to thinking it might cost close for a supercharger kit, heads and cam, fuel system etc but if for some reason I needed more I could bolt onto a stronger short block

 

[Moparmatt72]

A lot of people go to the junk yard and take the turbos off the cummins motors and use them and get minor lag. But x2 on balanceing the rotating assembly for sure. With the turbo diesel turbos and around maybe 10 psi of boost you'll make some really good hp at least 650+. Meth injection is always good either the 60/40 mixes you can buy or if you want to have fun run straight meth, its up to you and you can tune the car for the meth or just use it as a bonus unless you have a lvl gauge on the meth tank I wouldn't tune it to it bad things happen when its tuned to it and you run out, I accidently melted two of my factory pistons in my dodge neon srt4 running 20 psi on the modified stock turbo. Intercoolerz are always better to run if using on the street but you do make a bit more power not running one but also think that the meth injection acts just like a intercooler if not better.

 

[HT413]

A lot of people go to the junk yard and take the turbos off the cummins motors and use them and get minor lag. But x2 on balanceing the rotating assembly for sure. With the turbo diesel turbos and around maybe 10 psi of boost you'll make some really good hp at least 650+. Meth injection is always good either the 60/40 mixes you can buy or if you want to have fun run straight meth, its up to you and you can tune the car for the meth or just use it as a bonus unless you have a lvl gauge on the meth tank I wouldn't tune it to it bad things happen when its tuned to it and you run out, I accidently melted two of my factory pistons in my dodge neon srt4 running 20 psi on the modified stock turbo. Intercoolerz are always better to run if using on the street but you do make a bit more power not running one but also think that the meth injection acts just like a intercooler if not better.

Huh. Now that's something I gotta look into

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

That's an interesting idea using the cummins turbo :thinker:

And that's the only downside to methanol injection, running dry if you're tuned to be using it most of the time. I'm sure it's not a huge deal to stay on top of keeping it filled though, and I know some setups are set to kick in at a certain psi of boost (on a "when you need it" basis). Saw a Grand National set up this way with an in-car boost controller next to the methanol control, pretty cool way to do it

 

[HT413]

I dunno, I kinda like takin my car which honestly is really rough, my motor which even mopar guys would toss in a ditch, adding a junkyard turbo and making some grown men cry.

 

[Moparmatt72]

That's an interesting idea using the cummins turbo :thinker:

And that's the only downside to methanol injection, running dry if you're tuned to be using it most of the time. I'm sure it's not a huge deal to stay on top of keeping it filled though, and I know some setups are set to kick in at a certain psi of boost (on a "when you need it" basis). Saw a Grand National set up this way with an in-car boost controller next to the methanol control, pretty cool way to do it

Yea I thought it would be easy to keep it filled to until one day you forget get on it a few time and run out. I know rodney at ais they have some sweet set ups, I had the sensor that turns it on at a set boost level was nice and will use it again on my next motor build that will be twin turbo.

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I dunno, I kinda like takin my car which honestly is really rough, my motor which even molar guys would toss in a ditch, adding a junkyard turbo and making some grown men cry.

It is fun I had a great time killing v8s with my neon and my big turbo with meth, that was one of the best things about that car everyone always say "its just a neon" lol and the sound of turbos spooling up just sounds so sick I love it.

 

[dvw]

The turbo itself is the cheap part. it's the rest that gets you. Boost control,waste gate,fuel system,plumbing. My son did his 360 on the cheap. Still a fair amount of money. Junkyard turbos seldom are the correct combo. Get the correct combo and look out. His 62 Savoy has been 10.58@128 with a 3.23 gear and 275 drag radials at only 12psi.
Doug

 

[HT413]

The turbo itself is the cheap part. it's the rest that gets you. Boost control,waste gate,fuel system,plumbing. My son did his 360 on the cheap. Still a fair amount of money. Junkyard turbos seldom are the correct combo. Get the correct combo and look out. His 62 Savoy has been 10.58@128 with a 3.23 gear and 275 drag radials at only 12psi.
Doug

Doug I'm pretty sure it was your sons car that I read about a while back. Love the sleeper look, I bet corvettes and mustangs
on the next 3 counties run a d hide lol.

So can anyone give me a simplified budget on a turbo setup?

 

[Moparmatt72]

Its hard to say, course to save a little money you can get some turbos that are internally waste gated compared to externally gated. The most costly might be the labor to plumb the intercooler pipeing cause it will have to be custom made. If you want check out cxracing I had their intercooler on my srt4 and had no issues even on 30 psi and some have u sed their turbos with no issues as well. Will have to change you mufflers to resonators like a bullet muffler or any straight through none chambered muffler due to back pressure need a free flowing system. If I had to guess your looking around maybe $5000 but if you shop around might get some better prices.

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The turbo itself is the cheap part. it's the rest that gets you. Boost control,waste gate,fuel system,plumbing. My son did his 360 on the cheap. Still a fair amount of money. Junkyard turbos seldom are the correct combo. Get the correct combo and look out. His 62 Savoy has been 10.58@128 with a 3.23 gear and 275 drag radials at only 12psi.
Doug

Your sons car is on you tube right? If it is that's an awesome car and I think he's on the turbo forums I believe.

 

[HT413]

Matt, 30 psi bro, you're packin 3x the air in there lol.

Thank you gentlemen, lots of food for thought. I might just slowly built up some parts over the next year or two once I choose a course of action.

 

[67 coronet]

if you are looking for around 500 to 600 horse why do a stroker?just build a good 440 and you can pull those #s easy.depends on how much work you can do yourself,but i could build it for myself for around $3000.

 

[HT413]

if you are looking for around 500 to 600 horse why do a stroker?just build a good 440 and you can pull those #s easy.depends on how much work you can do yourself,but i could build it for myself for around $3000.

I've been eyeing the different combos the guys have around here and seems most guys use a stroker of some sort to get into the high 10's, so I sorta figured a built 440 might be on the edge of streetability to get my 69 belvedere in the low 11's range. Then I've found myself caught with a case of the 'might as wells' lol. Besides I've never raced so I thought I'd need some extra motor to get my dumbarse there lol. I'm sure you're right though.

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

For what it's worth, the meat and potatoes of my 440 build plan is just a slight bore-over with stock stroke, balanced rotating assembly, alluminum match-ported heads, streetable cam, FAST fuel injection, and an intercooled procharger. Still undecided on what compression I would go with, but the goal is similar to yours, a mid to high-600 horsepower that is still completely streetable since I'll be driving it a lot. Figure with some slicks and good driving it could be somewhere in the 11's.

 

[Moparmatt72]

Matt, 30 psi bro, you're packin 3x the air in there lol.

Thank you gentlemen, lots of food for thought. I might just slowly built up some parts over the next year or two once I choose a course of action.

True but it was a bat outta hell, 5 gear cruiseing 80 on the freeway drop down one gear and nail it and I would hit 140mph in no time. Building piece by piece is what I'm already doing for my turbo engine build now already have the bare heads ane aluminum rods.

 

[Ghosty]

Could check out the turbo forums they have a mopar section.

Nice, thx! Never knew about that site:

http://www.theturboforums.com/forums/227-MOPAR-Turbo-Tech-Forum