Turbo / supercharge stock truck 413?

[dvw]

Depends on what you want. I've built a few non stroker 440s that run between 10.80-11.50. They are streetable with good fuel. Nothing more exotic than bowl ported Edelbrocks,M.P. .557"or.590" cam and some compression.
Doug

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Depends on what you want. I've built a few non stroker 440s that run between 10.80-11.50. They are streetable with good fuel. Nothing more exotic than bowl ported Edelbrocks,M.P. .557"or.590" cam and some compression.
Doug

A streetable non-stroker n/a 440 in the 10's would be awesome. What kind of horsepower/torque numbers were they putting out and what size cars were they in?

 

[dvw]

Car-68 GTX,Full bench interior w/ back seat, lift of 6pak hood,Weld wheels,10.5x29,6pt roll bar,ss springs,4.56, 8 3/4,battery up front,stock water pump. 440+.060",12-1 Ross pistons,stock rodsw/bolts,.590"Mopar cam,Eddy heads,Torker,850 Holley,$99 headers,727,8" turbo action .
Car would go 10.80 in 70 degrees,10.90 anywhere. Nothing trick. All used parts except heads and cam/lifters.
Doug

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Wow that's awesome thanks for sharing that! Cool to see what can be done without the price of a whole car going into just an engine. I would be piecing mine together in a similar way other than having to buy the fuel injection setup new.

I bought a great used pair of Hedman headers with big primaries and 3" collector for $50 and repaired a bashed-in section of a primary from some idiot trying to clearance for the wrong starter, and painted them. Good as new now. Gonna try and save money like this wherever I can in my build

 

[Ryguytoodry]

You won't need forged pistons if you're running low boost. On another note, I'm building a turbo slant six right now!

 

[Moparmatt72]

We never said he had to have forged just a better idea for a lot better insurance.

 

[Budnicks]

Not really necessary at that performance level on a BB Mopar... Can you tune a boosted engine ??, Do you have the knowledge to build a boosted engine ??, Do you know the cause & effect of doing a boosted engine of any kind ??, if NOT, I would highly suggest buying a couple books on the subject of Supercharging or Turbocharging & seriously do some due diligence & research, on all the aspects of a boosted engine, not just the cool factor or HP.... A naturally aspirated non-boost mild Mopar BB in B or RB engine can make 450-500hp/tq very easily, even a decent 360 can do it easily & have great street manners... IMHFO it's all about the heads, especially on a BB Mopar, then the induction/fuel system, exhaust, ignition, gears trans, etc., then getting traction.... The turbo & centrifugal {even a roots or screw type} superchargers are great, if you have the proper knowledge & wallet to build & use them.... The proper style rings, block prep {even the type gaskets used}, hardware also, like installing ARP studded everything, not just cheapo basic/stock head or main bolts, you will be asking for trouble on a performance based boosted combo... A Block girdle will be a great idea also.... There is far more to it than just bolting on a boost parts, like a Turbo or Centrifugal air pump or a special mount or manifold... It's still all about heads {porting if you want to get the most out of any combo, even a boosted combo}, valves sizes, special camshaft designed for a using a supercharger or turbocharger, the under hood room & an adequate mounting area {along with the added under-hood heat}, valve train, cooling {water & air/induction}, fuel system, carb or TB or port Injection, then size & style of exhaust, gear selection, trans type, boost relief for when you let off, so you don't get a big dose of boost pressure, in the intake manifold, then maybe also boost retard, for the ignition under a higher boost load & for a higher boost level, maybe methanol injection too, then there's waste-gate pop off or relief valve, or what ever else is needed, are all equally as important, especially when dealing with an engine, with boost of any type... Then there's the issue of room or will it fit under the hood etc.... Cast pistons & crankshaft, can & will work, but are by far inferior to the Forged & Steel alternative... better to be safe & not sorry, spend a little more now save allot latter.... well maybe anyway...LOL... a few things to think about

 

[Moparmatt72]

Amen budnicks

 

[Ryguytoodry]

It took me months of research and reading before I even decided to jump into the boost idea, Budnicks is right, if you know what it takes, go for it man! But if not, getting 'searchin, it's also not "cheap power" like tons of people say.

 

[HT413]

Thanks all for humoring my random thought about boost. After some very preliminary research, I seriously doubt I'll go for it, but maybe in the future. Just too much fabing for me and like was stated above, for what I want, I probably can do it much more cheaply with some smart choices on a standard stroke 440 or even a 400/451 or 470 stroker.

 

[Budnicks]

Thanks all for humoring my random thought about boost. After some very preliminary research, I seriously doubt I'll go for it, but maybe in the future. Just too much fabing for me and like was stated above, for what I want, I probably can do it much more cheaply with some smart choices on a standard stroke 440 or even a 400/451 or 470 stroker.

Sorry I wasn't trying to be a kill joy...LOL... It can be done thou

 

[Moparmatt72]

Once you go forced induction of any sort you nevet want to go back to n/a its a way different animal

 

[RacerRick]

I have built a HT413 with a turbo. I kept the motor completely stock except for the stockmagnum camshaft, double roller timing chain, and passenger car oilpan and pickup. I made a simple crossover pipe from the drivers side manifold to passenger side, which connected to a J shaped pipe that went from the bottom of the passenger manifold. Both eneded up merged to a t4 flange that ended up just in front of the number 2 cylinder. I used a single ebay special GT45 with the largest A/R i could find (1.15 at the time). It came into boost around 2000 rpm and was all done by 4500 - when the stock valve springs would let the valves float. In a 4300lb 73 Sat wagonr it ran high 11's in full street trim, with a 2.94 gear at 15psi, no intercooler, water injection, and 94 octane pump gas. Best was 11.94@119. Put the trans in drive and let it shift on its own. It would have done much better with new valve springs and a converter as it was out of rpm by 1000ft, and the stock converter wouldn't let it build boost on the line. the turbo was small, but worked for the low RPM application.

Balancing and forged parts are nice to have but not needed. Boost creates a linear increase in stress, while RPM creates a geometric increase. Keep your RPM low and keep boost within the limits of detonation and the motor will last a long time. Just make sure the rings have enough gap to keep them from butting. My motor have 80,000 miles on it in a 33 foot motorhome and was worn enough the rings never butted. I bet it was making around 500-550hp and a boatload of torque.

 

[HT413]

I have built a HT413 with a turbo. I kept the motor completely stock except for the stockmagnum camshaft, double roller timing chain, and passenger car oilpan and pickup. I made a simple crossover pipe from the drivers side manifold to passenger side, which connected to a J shaped pipe that went from the bottom of the passenger manifold. Both eneded up merged to a t4 flange that ended up just in front of the number 2 cylinder. I used a single ebay special GT45 with the largest A/R i could find (1.15 at the time). It came into boost around 2000 rpm and was all done by 4500 - when the stock valve springs would let the valves float. In a 4300lb 73 Sat wagonr it ran high 11's in full street trim, with a 2.94 gear at 15psi, no intercooler, water injection, and 94 octane pump gas. Best was 11.94@119. Put the trans in drive and let it shift on its own. It would have done much better with new valve springs and a converter as it was out of rpm by 1000ft, and the stock converter wouldn't let it build boost on the line. the turbo was small, but worked for the low RPM application.

Balancing and forged parts are nice to have but not needed. Boost creates a linear increase in stress, while RPM creates a geometric increase. Keep your RPM low and keep boost within the limits of detonation and the motor will last a long time. Just make sure the rings have enough gap to keep them from butting. My motor have 80,000 miles on it in a 33 foot motorhome and was worn enough the rings never butted. I bet it was making around 500-550hp and a boatload of torque.

Thanks a lot, Rick, for that post. That was exactly what I had in mind. Keep it all stock, be reasonable with the boost and if i blow it up, well, it's just a truck 413 that is only worth $200 for the forged crank. I figured i could then build a decent shortblock and put the turbo stuff right back into service. I was originally thinking aluminum heads but they might be an unnecessary expense for what i was planning.

Happen to have some pictures of the setup?

 

[RacerRick]

i don't actually. It was ugly with a capital UG since this was simply an exercise in using up junk in the shop.

I bought the 73' sat wagon, for example, because it had an unmolested 69' 340 in it that I wanted for my dart and a 8.75" 3.23 suregrip rear. It was a rusty POS, and we hacked it together over a couple of weekends. It only lasted a few weekends racing before the stock trans gave up, and we parted it out and scrapped it.