Is the spark plug firing order molded on the intake manifold?
Turn the key and nothing happens..... HELP
- Thread starter 74Runneer
- Start date
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
No, its an edelbrock performer intake. I know the firing order but i dont know which one is #1 plug.
Based on the earlier post and assuming we are dealing with an "A" small block (but its the same on all motors), then looking at the motor from the front of the car, #1 cylinder is going to be the first cylinder on the right front of the motor. #2 will be left front side. #3 will be behind #1, #4 behind #2 on left side, and so forth. The distributor turns clockwise. Trace the #1 wire to the distributor cap. Refer back to the engine picture that was posted for distributor alignment. ASSUMING this is rough justice, the #1 plug wire should be at about between the six and seven o'clock position on the dizzy cap. If so, then continuing clockwise around the dizzy cap, the plug wires should be in this order going clockwise: #8, #4, #3, #6, #5, #7 and finally #2 on the right side of the #1 plug wire.
If this doesn't work, then we are going to have to get technical and get the dizzy realigned to find out where the rotor is pointing inside the cap when on #1. Work for tomorrow, unless our other helper has an easier way.
Putting the dizzy in rough alignment based on that picture, if you take the dizzy cap off, the rotor should be pointing between six and seven o'clock when its firing the #1 cylinder. If not, we need to slightly crank the motor until the rotor is pointing in that direction. You just need to minutely crank the key to get the rotor to spin and NOT fire the motor.
Hopefully other members agree with my method, the only other way I know is to remove the #1 spark plug and listen for the air exhaling from the spark plug hole to determine when its on #1.
If this doesn't work, then we are going to have to get technical and get the dizzy realigned to find out where the rotor is pointing inside the cap when on #1. Work for tomorrow, unless our other helper has an easier way.
Putting the dizzy in rough alignment based on that picture, if you take the dizzy cap off, the rotor should be pointing between six and seven o'clock when its firing the #1 cylinder. If not, we need to slightly crank the motor until the rotor is pointing in that direction. You just need to minutely crank the key to get the rotor to spin and NOT fire the motor.
Hopefully other members agree with my method, the only other way I know is to remove the #1 spark plug and listen for the air exhaling from the spark plug hole to determine when its on #1.
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Yeah the order on the cap is right but right now the #1 wire is pointing to about 10 oclock. It was near 6/7 before i started to retard the timing. Ill have to straighten that out tomorrow.
Yea, turn the entire distributor counterclockwise to get the #1 wire at or around the seven oclock position. Ok, so knowing the wires are correct on the cap, the next step is to get the rotor realigned with the #1 plug wire on the cap. That was the other stuff I discussed above where you need to remove the cap and get the rotor pointing to the six/seven oclock position so it matches the #1 wire on the cap that's in the six/seven oclock position.
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
mornin folks
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here's the firing order on the cap...put the distributor in the position with the vacuum canister pointing toward the passenger side like in the previous picture i posted last night...
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you need to slow down and take your time on this part, the firing order is crucial....
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here's the firing order on the cap...put the distributor in the position with the vacuum canister pointing toward the passenger side like in the previous picture i posted last night...
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you need to slow down and take your time on this part, the firing order is crucial....
ugh, morning peeps! :coffee2: Here's hoping the car gnomes came in the middle of the night and fixed the car.
But anyways, Otherguy, do you have an eaiser way for him to check and make sure that the rotor is in the #1 position when it needs to be for the #1 cylinder? If the rotor is out of position, that would cause the backfire up through the carb right? I wonder if the choke plate is open or closed when he's starting it?
But anyways, Otherguy, do you have an eaiser way for him to check and make sure that the rotor is in the #1 position when it needs to be for the #1 cylinder? If the rotor is out of position, that would cause the backfire up through the carb right? I wonder if the choke plate is open or closed when he's starting it?
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Good morning! I won't be home til 11 C so 2 and a half hours from now. So checking the firing order I need to rotate it so the canister is like yours, then put the number 1 at about 7 oclock?
Wait?! What?! Not home for 2.5 hours?! What are we supposed to do until then?
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Haha think of the next thing that I'm supposed to test.
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
Well, i usually check for tdc the old skool way by removing the #1 plug, then sticking a wadded up piece of paper towel in the spark plug hole, remove the distributor cap so i can see the rotor position..then i bump the engine over until the piece of paper towel pops out of the spark plug hole...you need to do very short/quick bumps on the starter relay, otherwise you will go past tdc...anyhow lol...when the piece of paper towel pops out, the rotor button should be pointing at or very close to the #1 spark plug position, which is about 6:30/7:00 o'clock..it will also pop out 180* from the #1 plug position, either way you found tdc, just one will be on the intake stroke, and one on the exhaust stroke...
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If it still doesn't run after confirming you are at tdc, then i would seriously think about re-examining your head swap job....Or enlist the help of a someone that has some old school engine knowledge...posting a local craigslist ad for help may prove fruitful if you do not personally know someone...
Their is only so much we can do here when we aren't personally leaning over the fender lol....
Something else you might want to do is put the original(oem) ignition system back on the car...assuming the oem ignition was running fine until you done the head swap, and then following up with the aftermarket ignition swap...which i assume you done in an effort to get it running again...
I like that method!!! Much better than trying to listen for air exhaling from the spark plug hole. Way more easier!!!
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
well, that method is more helpful on a gm engine(not sure how BB mopars are setup), because you can drop the distributor in them at any position..s/b mopars are just so easy with the flat keyed positioner on the distributor shaft...Again, as long as cam timing wasn't touched, you can only be 180* out, or right on...
Go figure, my good friend's an old school car guy and is a GM guy, he's got a '69 SS Chevelle, so now it makes sense that he told me to check that way. He's helped me with probably 90% of my Bee issues and the other 10% from here. $100 I bet he could coach me into getting this car started correctly. That's the next step is get his opinion and put it in writing here.
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74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Well I'm not sure what I could have done wrong installing the heads. They were professionally done so all I had to do was torque then down correctly. I didn't turn the engine over at all so the cam shouldn't have moved. Ill recheck my firing order and if that doesn't fix it then illbypass that brown wire. And ill look at that wiring diagram and quadruple check that every wire is in the right place. Could this be an issue with my electric choke?
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
Well folks, i'm gonna take my running roadchikin out for a drive lol
later
later
Danomt
Well-Known Member
Same with big block. With cylinder # one at tdc the slot in dist gear should run parallel to the camshaft then the only options are right or 180 off.
Now hang on, don't start bypassing wires just because. We've got the three things we need for the engine to start: air, fuel and spark. We just have to get the three items timed properly. Don't do anything else until you are positive that distributor is correct. Do what Otherguy said for getting the #1 piston where it needs to be then compare where the dizzy rotor is.
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Okay does this look right now? The blue wire is the number 1 wire.
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Ill check where the rotor is when the #1 compresses.
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I tried this test 3 times and the paper towel always popped out at this position all three times.
It looks like its 180* from #1. And this is the only position it would pop out at. It didnt pop out 180* across any of the 3 times.
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Ill check where the rotor is when the #1 compresses.
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I tried this test 3 times and the paper towel always popped out at this position all three times.
It looks like its 180* from #1. And this is the only position it would pop out at. It didnt pop out 180* across any of the 3 times.
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
you are 180* out mang...turn the distributor around to spark plug #1...
my mistake on the exhaust stroke, it will not push the paper out because the exhaust valve would be open lol...the intake stroke is the compression stroke.....
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another thing...DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER JUMPER WIRE ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE BALLAST RESISITOR WIRE HARNESS..??? I cant see one in your picture...you have got to cross both sides with jumper wires dude...
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like this....
my mistake on the exhaust stroke, it will not push the paper out because the exhaust valve would be open lol...the intake stroke is the compression stroke.....
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another thing...DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER JUMPER WIRE ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE BALLAST RESISITOR WIRE HARNESS..??? I cant see one in your picture...you have got to cross both sides with jumper wires dude...
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like this....
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