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What is too Rich of a fuel condition? A/F gauge not reading.

bigmanjbmopar

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We have all smelled the eye watering vapor smell of a rich condition, but how does it happen and how is it fixed? or in some case's is it a no win situation?

My A/F gauge strated to act stupid recently for unknown reasons, about 2 weeks after I thought I had everything dialed in and adjusted right. Then out of the blue it just would not read unless I was over 3k rpm. Sent it off the manufacturer who happily checked it out said there was noting wrong with it but replaced the circuit board anyway just to make sure and sent it back.

Reinstalled and at the suggestion of the manf. replaced the o2 sensor with a new one to go with it. well same crap. this time I could get readings at a more reasonable cruise speed but not a consistent reading and any let off of the gas pedal produced the same no read situation.

I am stumped on this one. One thing that happened while coming in from a cruise was the motor dieseling after shut down, this told me there was something off.way off.

So I broke out the timing light, vac pump, vac gauge, etc and re went over everything, timing was at 11 initial with 18 after vac adv kicked in. I have always heard give it more timing until it ings and back off, So I kicked it up to 15° initial with 20° with vac sec kicked in and 48°-49 all in. I backed out the idle air fuel screws a 1/4 turn or so to get the vac up to 14.5-15" from 12.5-13" of where it was. vac on distr is on timed ported on the carb. (carb is qft 780 vac sec)

went for a test drive and no ping, still no read and same situation when on the gas at cruise a/f wold read on the lean side. This gauge has the ability to adjust the setpoints of low and high from the factory settings so tried that just to see which made no difference.

Side note, when I had tuned it the first time I think I still had some 101 octane gas with 108 booster in the tank, now it just has 91. would this be so significant to have to re time and re adjust the mixtures?

Is it at all possible I am so rich that the o2 sensor just won't read until I get into a lean cruise condition?

Pretty much ready to toss this a/f gauge and spend $300+ on a dual system now that I have two o2 sensors and bungs on both sides. but just pisses me off, and I also want to be able to answer the question, is too rich a condition enough to make a a/f gauge not read? and if so at what point do you have to lean it out?
 
If it were so rich a wide band couldnt read it the car wouldnt run worth a crap if at all. Plugs would be dripping wet fouled. .
 
What type of gauge do you have. 18 to one lean mixture will burn your eyes out too. Is it an analog or digital gauge.
 
You can't go by smell or eyes burning. Cam overlap will cause all this due to excessive hydrocarbons. In fact, I have dialed in plenty lean idles with hot cams but with the persistence of high HC. If you want to know the real story take it a 4 gas analyzer and have them check it. Bring your O2 meter and compare (if it's working). Not sure why the O2 meter would quit.
 
Hard to tell if it is pegging out or not, here is a short vid of just normal cruising a couple of stop and go's. You can see the gauge drop out to 888 the manufacture is looking into it.


https://youtu.be/MAEQXUs__HU

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You can't go by smell or eyes burning. Cam overlap will cause all this due to excessive hydrocarbons. In fact, I have dialed in plenty lean idles with hot cams but with the persistence of high HC. If you want to know the real story take it a 4 gas analyzer and have them check it. Bring your O2 meter and compare (if it's working). Not sure why the O2 meter would quit.

Will have to see if a shop near me has this set up.

In the mean time switching radiators again and dropping the flex fan for twin 12" electrics pullers and then going to plop that 850 back on there and take it back to the dyno shop :) 3k cfm 2 row 1" tubes. see what happens here in hot August nights.
 
are you getting a clean power signal to the gauge?a variable signal(voltage)can freak digital gauges out pretty bad.just something to check.
 
are you getting a clean power signal to the gauge?a variable signal(voltage)can freak digital gauges out pretty bad.just something to check.

I agree, I watched your video and it looks like either the power or O2 signal is interrupted during your drive.

I have the exact same gauge, I have not had problems like the ones shown in your vid, it does look rich but seems to have some power or signal problems.

Did you do the calibration in open air prior to installing the sensor?
 
Yes calibrated to open air first, and I will check the power wire to the gauge, it is on key on power so now I'm wondering if by that it is resetting every time the key is on and off?
 
you really need to use a Fast A/F recorder and Start it on the starting line go WOT and then turn it off at the finish line then read it. you can't really determine the fule air mix just driving around 10 is very rich. What is your carb? jets? power valve?
 
My O2 digital gauge pegs at 17+ when the engine is hot, cruising, etc. What gives? Is the sensor fouling?
 
My O2 digital gauge pegs at 17+ when the engine is hot, cruising, etc. What gives? Is the sensor fouling?
Please see how the plugs look at the tip and halfway down the insulator. Compare with that lean gauge reading; make sure the gauge isn't fibbing. The plugs don't lie, sometimes the gauges do..
 
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