What size Oil Restrictor

[gkent]

Yeah, I see that.

 

[andyf]

The bottom line is that you can't go by what anybody is telling you, you just have to look at your own engine to see what the issue is. We all have lots of experience with these engines but nobody on here knows what your lifter bore clearance is or what the base circle on your cam is or things like that. If you have a tolerance stack up issue then you'll have to find it and solve it by looking at your parts. As people have pointed out pull the cover and see what is going on. If it isn't leaking a bunch there then it is probably the top end. Over the years I've solved these problems by using clear valley covers and clear valve covers.

 

[PRHeads]

The reason I stated “your” lifters in “your” block is because the way the drilled gallery intersects with the lifter bores is different in every bore in every block.
The one really bad gusher I had..... only did it on one lifter bore.
A couple weren’t great, and some barely had anything coming out.
On that really bad one I could “hear” the oil gushing out past the lifter.

Which is why you need to check every one.
Put the lifter at full lift, run the drill, see what’s running out the bottom.
Use a light to look at the back side of the cam tunnel too.

In general, I’d say the passenger side seems to have more of an issue than the drivers side, but I have no doubt there are blocks that are the opposite.

 

[2quick]

I will try that.

 

[Challenger340]

The bottom line is that you can't go by what anybody is telling you, you just have to look at your own engine to see what the issue is. We all have lots of experience with these engines but nobody on here knows what your lifter bore clearance is or what the base circle on your cam is or things like that. If you have a tolerance stack up issue then you'll have to find it and solve it by looking at your parts. As people have pointed out pull the cover and see what is going on. If it isn't leaking a bunch there then it is probably the top end. Over the years I've solved these problems by using clear valley covers and clear valve covers.

Well said Andy.
No mileage for anyone watching someone else chase their tale with a problem, I think we've ALL been there done that LOTS at times !
NOT FUN !
So I think all any of us can do ultimately based in our own experiences of what we've found ? is to try and relate issues we've seen and dealt with, that seem relevant to their problem based on symptoms they are relating.
All I know is if it were me ?.... based in my experience ?.... having a 'Boo at how much Oil is bypassing the Lifter(s)/Bores while priming would be part of my troubleshooting.

I still dunno what "Block" 2quick is running though either ? Stock oem/Mega/KB/INDY Maxx

 

[2quick]

Stock 67 block

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I remember Dan used to tell us how correcting the lifter bores was a good idea and as a machinist he was very experienced in that procedure!

RIP Dan

 

[Challenger340]

Stock 67 block

OK then.
Just me, and remember here.... at times I've felt like I could be depriving some Village of a perfectly good idge-yot ? and with NO dis-respect to anyone at CROWER,
that said,
I've personally never been able to get their HIPPO Trunion Oiling to meter correctly on UN-Bushed stock Block Lifter Bores, without substantial Oil Pressure losses, which can be viewed when Priming(squirting out bottom by of the Trunions). Maybe the E's are better than their H's we've tried ? I dunno ?
just say'in here....
in my opinion only....
if you are so inclined, you may wish to Prime and have a 'Boo at your Lifters ?

Hopefully I didn't go out and spend THOUSANDS on tooling just to be able to Correct & BUSH Lifter Bores for nothing ?

 

[andyf]

I had a customer engine with low oil pressure in the shop a few years ago. It had Crower solid roller lifters and the customer told me that he had talked to Crower and they had told him these lifters would work with a stock block. I'm sure you know how this story ends but the bottom line is that the guy at Crower was a liar. The lifters they sold my customer would not work in a stock block since the oil holes were drilled wrong. They lied to my customer and then refused to take the lifters back or reimburse him. I've never used Crower on any of my projects since then and I have no plans of ever working with them on any future project. So that is my 2 cents on your issue........

Years later I figured out how I could've fixed the lifters but by then it was too late. If you post pictures of your lifters I can tell you if they'll work in a stock block or not.

 

[2quick]

These are the best pictures I have. Maybe you can get something from this. Tried looking on Crowers site to see if they had a pic (not in oil) but looks like they us the generic chevy lifter pic for everything.

 

[PRHeads]

Depending on where those oil holes go........ that doesn’t look promising to me.

IMO, The “correct” positioning for the oil feed holes in roller lifters for use in a stock Mopar big block with unbushed lifter bores is parallel with the axles.
Preferably, the lifter body would have an oil band, where the tiny EDM feed holes to the axles would be.
Pushrod oiling feed holes would be above the band, and parallel to the axles.

The only way I can see the oil feed holes working when they are perpendicular to the axles is if the holes are tiny.
The holes in your lifters look pretty big....... so it would depend on what the inside of the lifter is plumbed like as to whether they should work or not.

But, if there is a problem....... it will be revealed with the priming test.

Do your lifters also have pushrod oiling? If so, what sized feed hole?



The only feed holes in these lifters are at the bottom of the flat that’s machined into the band, and they are tiny edm holes that go to the axles.
And even with these, there is quite a bit of oil running out the bottom of the lifters.
No oil pressure issues though.

 

[BSB67]

I'd put the restrictors in and see what you get.

 

[6PKRTSE]

As AndyF mentioned. Everyone's blocks/oil pressures are different. I run .050" restrictor's in my 2nd Gen Hemi but mine is a Mega block running 55MM roller cam bearings, external dual line Milodon oIL system, 10 qt flat bottom dragster pan, Ray Barton rocker system and an Accusump with no oiling issues front idle to 7900.

 

[2quick]

I made the restrictor today, going to start at .063 and see what happens. One thing I did notice is when I added shims to the pump spring (I added to much) when I kick it and the engine free revs to 5000rpm I can see Oil Pressure spikes for a split second over 125psi...I'm going to pull all the shims from the pump, Install the .063 restrictors and see where I'm at. I'm really only looking for a few more pounds at idle...anything above idle is fine and ramps from 25psi @ 1800rpm to 65 @ 5500rpm. That looks good to me. If the restrictors bring up Hot Idle to 20-25 I'm good with that, and if that's the case then should bring whole window up a couple pounds.

I found a cutaway of the lifter I'm running that shows the Hippo and Pushrod oiling locations.

 

[PRHeads]

I suppose if the oil pressure is as high as you’d like, that’s fine.

Personally, I’d like to know that I don’t have excessive leakage in the valvetrain, and that the bulk of the oil is going to the bearings.

The issue I see with the cutaway of that lifter is(as it pertains to a stock BB Mopar block without bushings)is...... it appears to have unrestricted oil to the pushrods.
Not a problem if there are no oil holes in the pushrods....... for the part of the lift cycle where there is no slack in the valvetrain(and the pushrods are plugging the hole).
Not so good for the other 60% of the time when there is slack in the valvetrain.

 

[2quick]

So let me pick your brains. I am having multiple issues that changed once I went to the TD setup. oil Pressure aside for the moment (although I did install the .063 restrictor in the line and pressure is up to 18-20psi at hot idle, 45psi @ cruise, and 65psi @ 5500, and when I pulled the valve cover oil was still flowing over the rocker at a good rate, even pumping out onto the header, to the point I had to shove rags in there to stop the mess) but anyway, I having very, very, noisy valetrain. starts with you basic solid lifter tap cold, but gets much worse as it warms up. The old Dove rocker were also loud but not like this. It's very irritating to drive. I assumed that going to the TD stuff would quiet things down a bit due to tighter side clearances and nylon type spacers, instead of metal shims, but it's louder then ever. Heads are INDY 440-1. My spring diameter is 1.510. I'm .120 from coil bind w/.030 shim to get it there. The valve tip extends plenty far above the retainer. The pushrod is 3/8 in diameter, The cam is a .262/.262 @ .050 .645/.645 as speced by Dwayne Porter. I have very little side clearance with the new TD rockers probably 0.00 clearance to almost tight on the middle pairs for 3,5 and 4,6 I even clearanced the pedestals some to make it better, you can actuate the rockers by hand but there is drag, TD said this was OK and that they would burnish in????? The lash was initially set .018 cold, then checked hot, it opened up to .025-.026 so I lashed them back to a tight .019, cam card calls for .020. I just don't know what it could be!! I did notice the intake rocker pushrod for #5 cylinder felt like it could be close to the head but I didn't see anything rubbing. Also it just runs funny and my fuel injection needed to be tweaked to pull fuel at idle. One other thing is the car always smells like it's running pig rich and waters your eyes, but my laptop tells me the AFR is 14.5 at idle. Looking for some guidance.

 

[Challenger340]

I will post the following pictures for a few reasons, but generally relating to enhancing context around Oil Pressure losses.
1.) Context to assist in visualization of the CROWER HIPPO Lifter Oil System
2.) Context as it relates to my earlier posts regarding problems we experienced with these Lifters ?

3.) Context around AndyF's post 6 posts above this one, regarding his dealings with the company and potential accuracy(fluff) of "tech" information verbalized by them
and,
4.) Context, as to why I am replying here also as a Shop Owner ?
that being....
You may wish to ask yourself WHY I may still have open Brand New DEAD STOCK laying around gathering dust in my parts room ? that I can just go take cute Pictures of to post here ?
Granted you will notice these are for a KB HEMI Block with the reversed upper Lifter Gallery, nonetheless, I can assure you we've used the Wedge models as well, the HIPPO Oiling System being common to all models of this Lifter.

Flow Through Larger Hole to provide Oil to the opposite side of the Lifter Body from the side exposed to the Block Oil Gallery. Pushrod Oiling is "metered" by the Lifter Body "clrc" in the Bore, and the "distance" between the Large Hole and Small Hole that feeds the pushrod cup.

Close up of the Trunion Oil Feed edm Hole in the above Diagram illustration.

 

[Challenger340]

So let me pick your brains. I am having multiple issues that changed once I went to the TD setup. Oil Pressure aside for the moment (although I did install the .063 restrictor in the line and pressure is up to 18-20psi at hot idle, 45psi @ cruise, and 65psi @ 5500, and when I pulled the valve cover oil was still flowing over the rocker at a good rate, even pumping out onto the header, to the point I had to shove rags in there to stop the mess) but anyway, I having very, very, noisy valetrain. Starts with you basic solid lifter tap cold, but gets much worse as it warms up. The old Dove rocker were also loud but not like this. It's very irritating to drive. I assumed that going to the TD stuff would quiet things down a bit due to tighter side clearances and nylon type spacers, instead of metal shims, but it's louder then ever. 440-1 Heads, My spring diameter is 1.510, I'm .120 from coil bind w/.030 shim to get it there, the valve tip extends plenty far above the retainer. The pushrod is 3/8 in diameter, the cam is a .262/.262 @ .050 .645/.645 as speced by Dwayne Porter. I have very little side clearance with the new TD rockers probably 0.00 clearance to almost tight on the middle pairs for 3,5 and 4,6 I even clearanced the pedestals some to make it better, you can actuate the rockers by hand but there is drag, TD said this was OK and that they would burnish in????? The lash was initially set .018 cold, then checked hot, it opened up to .025-.026 so I lashed them back to a tight .019, cam card calls for .020. I just don't know what it could be!! I did notice the intake rocker pushrod for #5 cylinder felt like it could be close to the head but I didn't see anything rubbing. Also it just runs funny and my fuel injection needed to be tweaked to pull fuel at idle. One other thing is the car always smells like it's running pig rich and waters your eyes, but my laptop tells me the AFR is 14.5 at idle. Looking for some guidance.

What's changed since the Rocker noise elevated ?
Rocker's only ?
Same length Pushrods as before with the DOVE Rockers ?

 

[2quick]

What's changed since the Rocker noise elevated ?
Rocker's only ?
Same length Pushrods as before with the DOVE Rockers ?

Really only Rockers! Had to send the pushrods back to Smith-Brothers to get the ends changed out from the Dove style (ball-cup) to Chevy style (ball-ball) and resized as needed.

 

[2quick]

Do the INDY/DOVE Rockers and T&D Rockers have the same offset? Would the T&D Rockers change the pushrod to head clearance? Has anyone seen a clearance issue for this combination that needed more clearance in the pushrod area. I would think this a very common setup.