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Where did my ET go?

ksurfer2

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Not more than 1 month ago, I was at a point where I was consistently in the low to mid 10.40's. Since then, I have not made any changes to the car. This past weekend at Rockingham, I was struggling to get below 10.65 (with similar DA). The times were off consistently through the run from the 60' on. Following my first run, the car did not feel right so I started looking into potential issues. I did find the adjuster nut on one of the rocker arms had backed out. I thought that may have been the issue, but fixing it did not solve the issue. I also found a loose nut on the coil...tightening that back did not solve anything either. Through the weekend, the car was getting harder and harder to start and still feeling a bit "off", especially at higher RPM's. I am running dual batteries. A couple of weeks ago, I brought them to an auto parts store and had them tested and they were fine, but I still think this is where the issue may be. Is there a scenario where a bad battery can affect the performance to the tune of nearly .25? I am running an MSD 6AL box and Masterblaster coil.
 
Is the MPH the same or off? Is the car spinning? Maybe the track prep has changed. Do you have a playback tach?

Try a different coil. Then try a different MSD box. How is the ignition timing? Set the same or acting different? Are the plug wires OK or breaking down?

Is the converter stalling as high as usual?

is there any glitter in the trans fluid? Rear end gear oil? Can ypu push the car easily? Or is it harder than normal to roll the car?

A mechanical problem can do this also.
 
I know guys who raced 4/8 and than again on 4/15 and their cars slowed up .2-.25 in the 1/4 mile. I don't have a weather station but some guys that do said the air on 4/8 was one of those mineshaft air kind of days. Some of it could be if the air changed, but if you say the car is harder to start than I'd check the electrical connections. If your do for an oil change, wouldn't hurt to do that and cut open the filter just to be sure nothing is going bad in the engine. Wouldn't think the trans would make it harder to start, but if it starts slipping or convertor is bad than that would def make the car slow down.
 
Basic troubleshooting to start.... Compression OK? Fuel pressure good?, etc. etc.

All we can do is spitball really. Number one failure remains dirty fuel filter IDB. Did car sit in colder weather? Maybe some sediment now?? Best of luck.
 
Is the MPH the same or off? Is the car spinning? Maybe the track prep has changed. Do you have a playback tach?

Try a different coil. Then try a different MSD box. How is the ignition timing? Set the same or acting different? Are the plug wires OK or breaking down?

Is the converter stalling as high as usual?

is there any glitter in the trans fluid? Rear end gear oil? Can ypu push the car easily? Or is it harder than normal to roll the car?

A mechanical problem can do this also.
MPH is off as well. It is consistent with what my MPH was when I was running mid 10.60's.

Timing hasn't been changed. I will go through all sorts of stuff this weekend including the plug wires.

Trans was rebuilt in February, so (I hope) that is not where the issue is.

I just went through the brakes to make sure the car will roll easily, so that is not the issue.
 
Basic troubleshooting to start.... Compression OK? Fuel pressure good?, etc. etc.

All we can do is spitball really. Number one failure remains dirty fuel filter IDB. Did car sit in colder weather? Maybe some sediment now?? Best of luck.
Fuel pressure is good, I will be running compression check this weekend.

I live in Florida, so it is not a cold weather thing! :)

I will also change oil and cut open oil filter this weekend.
 
I can tell you that the Orlando weather was better than I've ever raced in. D/A isn't the best way to gauge. Vapor pressure, barometer, temp in the correct percentage will be nearly spot on. Factor in wind and track prep and that sets your tune up. It looks roughly to me with historical data on weather from those two tracks there appears to be .15-25 in ET during Sundays eliminations. Then factor in if the tune up was ideal for Orlando (timing, jetting) and not as good in Rockingham. Good weather data is critical for racing at different tracks. My stuff saw at least .20 difference in 660ft due to weather and track conditions last year. There's a reason some racers can show up at the track and run with-in .01-02 of index right off the bat. Look at Wheeler, Lang, Bumpus, etc. Guys use to ask me what I'd run when I had my 63 Dodge. We'd set the tune up and I'd tell them 10.48. and go out and run a 10.485 on the first hit. That was in the 90's. Been tracking weather a long time in my career.
Doug
 
Here is my take on racing on an indexin NSS, if you want to run a certain index all of the time ex. 10.50 you better be able to run at least 2.5+ tenth's quicker in great air or be ready to dial up to the next index and slow the car down. It's much easier to slow the car down than to pick up a tenth in bad air. A lot of racers are too proud or stubborn to dial up to the next index when they are fighting for .05 or more and I thank them for that. Wonder how sensitive that indy intake is for jetting vs weather? vs factory crossram?
 
Ign problems can be incredibly hard to diagnose. Sometimes substitution of parts is the only way....
Since high rpm is affected, I would check your valve springs.
 
Not more than 1 month ago, I was at a point where I was consistently in the low to mid 10.40's. Since then, I have not made any changes to the car. This past weekend at Rockingham, I was struggling to get below 10.65 (with similar DA). The times were off consistently through the run from the 60' on. Following my first run, the car did not feel right so I started looking into potential issues. I did find the adjuster nut on one of the rocker arms had backed out. I thought that may have been the issue, but fixing it did not solve the issue. I also found a loose nut on the coil...tightening that back did not solve anything either. Through the weekend, the car was getting harder and harder to start and still feeling a bit "off", especially at higher RPM's. I am running dual batteries. A couple of weeks ago, I brought them to an auto parts store and had them tested and they were fine, but I still think this is where the issue may be. Is there a scenario where a bad battery can affect the performance to the tune of nearly .25? I am running an MSD 6AL box and Masterblaster coil.
Add more details, please.

Did the rocker adjuster actually come loose or was it still tight but lash was too loose?

You say hard starting; was it cranking over or spinning over normal speed and just not starting or was it cranking slow like it’s held back, compression was higher or timing was advanced?

When you say it was not running as good, was it rough like misfire or was it smooth and just down on power?
 
all good suggestions above mostly

basics

air pressure

different track conditions/weather

track temp/prep

shocks settings, for the proper conditions

valve lash/preload or bent/loose pushrod/s (?)

camshaft going away (hope not)
run the valves, is the best way to keep ontop of it

timing

just spitballing here

different fuels, even just diferent brands
&/or old/er fuel can wreak havoc too
clogged or partially clogged fuel filters,
should be 1 by the tank/cell & one by the carb/s
maybe the fuel pump not keeping up
does it have a regulator (by-pass IMPO is the best) is it still the same

do you know (?)
what your fuel pressure "actually is" going down track WOT
& in the traps

different weather, temps, RAD, humidity, the corrected altitude

tires pressure/traction or they are just going away

any of the above can effect it

Generally speaking
valve lash can affect it too
too loose will generally lose some up-top/MPH

your HP is your MPH, losing MPH is usually 'giving up' HP,
if all else is the same
ET is basically torque & that's how your car specifically works
suspension tires gears converter & that gets to the 330' mark,
where much of the ET, can be lost or gained

valve springs going away
basically losing control of the valves &/or valve-float, kills power
valve springs are finicky deals, some go away fast
some seem to last for a long time & cost/price isn't always the reasoning
seems like a real crapshoot

voltage, plugs, cap, rotor, wires, coil, ignition box/computer controls
anything in the ignition system
anything with more resistance
just because they (parts) are new (newish) doesn't mean they are good
or any misfiring
no matter how minimal, can affect the performance
I've had NEW ****, right out of the box, be bad & run bad

pull plugs after a clean shutoff
(not a bunch of idling around on them)
& do a reading
see what it wants, if you don't know how
good rule of thumb
Spark plugs reading #1c.jpg


A 300rpm + or - off, at launch or at shift points,
can be a huge change
in either direction, could be better or worse
some cars are far more temperamental than others

do you have a AFR gauge
something 12.8 at WOT is good,
about right where you should be, the sweet spot
on Gas/pump or race gas
11.? (or lower #) is too fat at WOT
13.? (or higher #) is too lean at WOT
idle can be 13:1 but not at WOT, not on any race engine running GAS
(different deal & #s on E85 or Methanol/Alcohol)
too lean or too fat can affect it that much too
Jetting for good air (especially mineshaft good, cool & dense)
vs bad air (hot humid wet) is/can be vastly different

do all the basics 1st check the simplest things
check the total timing, **** can change
check & see if you have any arching/cross-firing going on
run the valves cold & hot, see what it's actually doing
see if any one cylinder is having to be adjusted more than another
lots of stuff can go on there, some lil' changes can do weird stuff

check all the grounds on the car too, ignition & battery depends on it

all can & will affect the times

I'd also
Do a leak-down test, and see where it's losing compression/air
if it is, going into the pan, it's rings more than likely (possibly piston/s)
if you hear it thru the carb/intake, it's intake valves,
if lash or preload is adjusted properly
if you hear it thru the exhaust more than likely exhaust valves,
if lash or preload is adjusted properly

the trans is the major change
since you last ran it, it seems
I'd look there too
maybe parasitic drag on something (?)
the converter could be going away too
tires, shock settings, etc. etc. etc.

racecars wear out, sometimes even run to run
gotta keep on top of it, to know where you have something going away
keep a detailed log of conditions, RAD, weather,
specific tune & different tracks settings


I hope for your sake, it's nothing major
good luck
 
Last edited:
Add more details, please.

Did the rocker adjuster actually come loose or was it still tight but lash was too loose?

You say hard starting; was it cranking over or spinning over normal speed and just not starting or was it cranking slow like it’s held back, compression was higher or timing was advanced?

When you say it was not running as good, was it rough like misfire or was it smooth and just down on power?
The rocker adjuster actually came loose.

It was cranking very slow, like the timing was too advanced. However timing has not been changed.

Running rough at higher rpm, it is usually smooth as silk all through the rpm range, but it felt off.

My list of things to check this weekend:

1. Have the batteries checked at a local auto parts store
2. Check compression on all cylinders
3. check the lifter under the rocker that came loose for any damage
4. change oil and open oil filter to look for any metal
5. Check battery connections to grounds and the starter
 
Check the batteries with a volt meter. That should tell you something. Not running an alternator?
 
The rocker adjuster actually came loose.

It was cranking very slow, like the timing was too advanced. However timing has not been changed.

Running rough at higher rpm, it is usually smooth as silk all through the rpm range, but it felt off.

My list of things to check this weekend:

1. Have the batteries checked at a local auto parts store
2. Check compression on all cylinders
3. check the lifter under the rocker that came loose for any damage
4. change oil and open oil filter to look for any metal
5. Check battery connections to grounds and the starter
I'm new to track racing and don't race often (only once or twice a summer). A few years ago the last time I was at the track I hadn't changed anything and the first blast down the track I had engine pinging under WOT. My time out before that I had no issue and a few great runs. So I splashed 5 gallons of 110 in the tank and took another run. Still pinging. I had not changed my timing, but I checked it and it had advanced about 6 degrees. The distributor lock down bolt had been tightened, but had somehow loosened. Worth confirming timing if you haven't already.

If it's not that, I've had more than one MSD blaster coil go bad in short order. After coil replacement, back to fun times.
 
Check the batteries with a volt meter. That should tell you something. Not running an alternator?
Yes, I am running an alternator. I keep the car on a battery tender since it doesn't get out much. Last night I disconnected the tender and both batteries were at 12.83 volts. I left the tender disconnected and will check them again tonight when I get home.
 
I'm new to track racing and don't race often (only once or twice a summer). A few years ago the last time I was at the track I hadn't changed anything and the first blast down the track I had engine pinging under WOT. My time out before that I had no issue and a few great runs. So I splashed 5 gallons of 110 in the tank and took another run. Still pinging. I had not changed my timing, but I checked it and it had advanced about 6 degrees. The distributor lock down bolt had been tightened, but had somehow loosened. Worth confirming timing if you haven't already.

If it's not that, I've had more than one MSD blaster coil go bad in short order. After coil replacement, back to fun times.
I checked and re-checked the timing multiple times over the weekend to see if timing could be the issue, It did not move at all. Timing set at 35* and locked there. I do run a start retard box to help with starting.
 
Yes, I am running an alternator. I keep the car on a battery tender since it doesn't get out much. Last night I disconnected the tender and both batteries were at 12.83 volts. I left the tender disconnected and will check them again tonight when I get home.
If it stays good with the engine running I would rule out the batteries as a problem.
 
I checked and re-checked the timing multiple times over the weekend to see if timing could be the issue, It did not move at all. Timing set at 35* and locked there. I do run a start retard box to help with starting.
I have had the boxes flake out before. Disconnect the box and try it.
 
If you are running a MSD distributor, pull the cap and check the reluctor and pickup. They are known to corrode. Simple check
 
Check the voltage at the batteries while cranking, I would bet one or both are bad
 
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