Which 440 would you build?

[1Tlew0]

Thanks everyone for your input, and I'll take it all into consideration when making my decision. Ultimately, I'll go with what the engine builder prefers, but this helps with talking points. Cheers!

 

[66Satellite47]

That crack is from water freezing not from stress.

Agree the crack is from water freezing not from stress. But the stress created to crack between the freeze plugs will apply to the cylinder walls. Would require boring/honing to make them straight IMHO. My 426W that came with my '65 drag car had a crack between the freeze plugs. I ground a vee in the crack and used epoxy to seal it, honed the block with a head plate. Worked great for a few years until a pushrod failed, lifter popped out, destroyed the crank. Built a fresh 440+.030.

 

[Moms68]

Is the stitching repair method any good?

 

[1968rt]

The 67 is a 350 horse motor with 516 heads. Better heads on the 68 but you have to check the crank damage and the crack between the freeze plugs. I say take the 67 and use aftermarket heads.

 

[747mopar]

Really hard to say until they're torn down but I always prefer an original worn out motor over one that someone has had their fingers in.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Really hard to say until they're torn down but I always prefer an original worn out motor over one that someone has had their fingers in.

A 67 engine from a C body could have 516 or 915 small valve heads. It's stamped C 440, but no picture under the valve covers. It's not stamped HP so not from a GTX. My understanding is that the value size is the only difference in the 915 heads. The OP may have a better engine to build and my affliction and love for the 67's makes me lean strongly in that direction. Putting 915 heads on a stock 68 and up engine, puts you in the detonation zone without proper cam choice. Back in the day it was a cheap performance upgrade, but I'm afraid that's not so with today's crap gas.

 

[eldubb440]

Putting 915 heads on a stock 68 and up engine, puts you in the detonation zone without proper cam choice

even if the pistons are .010 in the hole? asking for a friend

 

[66Satellite47]

OP, sonic check the cylinder wall thickness. Thick walls make power. Don't bore more than you need to. The year doesn't make any difference unless you're doing a premium show car for numbers matching.
I'd pay a lot more attention to what cylinder heads you are working with. As said a '67 may have the 915 "big valve" heads or the small valve heads. Difference is big valve HP heads have a 1.74 exhaust valve. Low perf have a 1.60 valve. It may also have the 516 head, also the small exhaust valve. The small valve heads are easily upgraded to the larger exhaust valves. It does make a difference. The intake port is very different between the 915 and 516 head. I have had very good results with a very basic pocket porting on a 516 with the larger valve for fairly mild combination. A '68 motor should have a 906 head, the better intake port and the 1.74 exhaust valve. Check & see what you've got for parts.

 

[1Tlew0]

What are your thoughts on the bare '68 block currently at another engine builder? It has already been blasted, cleaned, and magnaflux'd. This does come with a warranty if my builder deems it unusable. If I went this route, I would use my internals (minus a few things such as pistons), being they checked out fine. Then I would use aluminum heads, which was the route I was leaning towards anyway.

My thought, or concern with the '67 is that the engine has to be disassembled, tanked, checked, and it very well could have an underlying issue that I don't know about. Then, I'm back to square one again looking for another motor. Where the bare block has already been checked, apparently, which gives me a little more comfort in the purchase.


Good info and input from everyone here, though. I appreciate it.

 

[Jerry Hall]

even if the pistons are .010 in the hole? asking for a friend

Whatever your compression ratio is, you can count on a change of close to +1.0 over your previous compression, with everything else the same.

 

[747mopar]

What are your thoughts on the bare '68 block currently at another engine builder? It has already been blasted, cleaned, and magnaflux'd. This does come with a warranty if my builder deems it unusable. If I went this route, I would use my internals (minus a few things such as pistons), being they checked out fine. Then I would use aluminum heads, which was the route I was leaning towards anyway.

My thought, or concern with the '67 is that the engine has to be disassembled, tanked, checked, and it very well could have an underlying issue that I don't know about. Then, I'm back to square one again looking for another motor. Where the bare block has already been checked, apparently, which gives me a little more comfort in the purchase.


Good info and input from everyone here, though. I appreciate it.

I'm not as scared of the crack as some, yes if it cracked by the frost plug it likely froze at some point but... you will blow the whole side of the block out before damaging the cylinders with frozen water. Flat wall vs cylindrical shape.. flat wall looses every time. Having said that, if it checks out and it's warrantied I wouldn't be to concerned.. not my first choice but should be fine.

I bought a Firebird once, I went to top off the coolant before driving it home but couldn't ever get it to fill up, took a look under it and the whole side of the block was gone! Since it was junk anyhow we jumped in and headed home, ran perfectly for about 20 minutes before overheating lol.

 

[GTX JOHN]

The 69 and up blocks had strengthening ribs, but as stated, for a mild build I wouldn't worry about them. The HP and HP2 stamps were just that, stamps, same block.

Mark

HP = It has Higher Perf. camshaft (375 HP)
1/2= What shift it was built on
ZERO difference in the Block is Correct.
Lotsof Misinformation floating around about them!!

 

[SlinktRR]

The problem with the bare block is it's like a blank canvas. You have to set a 1) budget and 2) power goal or you will end up spending more than you want or need to.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Sounds like the least risk is the 68 that is cleaned up and checked out. The others are a unknown but likely will need .030 or .040 as well. You just don't know until they are apart and checked. With your present parts the bare block is a good way to go.

 

[66Satellite47]

What are your thoughts on the bare '68 block currently at another engine builder? It has already been blasted, cleaned, and magnaflux'd. This does come with a warranty if my builder deems it unusable. If I went this route, I would use my internals (minus a few things such as pistons), being they checked out fine. Then I would use aluminum heads, which was the route I was leaning towards anyway.

My thought, or concern with the '67 is that the engine has to be disassembled, tanked, checked, and it very well could have an underlying issue that I don't know about. Then, I'm back to square one again looking for another motor. Where the bare block has already been checked, apparently, which gives me a little more comfort in the purchase.


Good info and input from everyone here, though. I appreciate it.

Starting with a bare block is good if it has been checked. Ask what the bore currently is, and what the builder thinks it needs to be. I certainly, would have it re-checked. Lots of reasons a builder would have a bare block sitting around. Years ago I bought five 440 blocks from my builder that his customers had abandoned. One of those is currently in my Satellite, another sitting in the corner.
Hopefully enough of your existing parts are usable for the new build. Good luck.

 

[polyjohn]

If you are building a complete engine from scratch then a bare block is all you need!

You will have to buy the pistons after you select your heads.
67 and 68 engines are the same in theory with close chamber heads.
516 in 66/67 and then 915 in 67/68.
All irrelevant with an aftermarket head.
Most folks are saying the 'trickflows are the best 'bang for the buck' at present?
Some like high comp builds but I prefer under 10 to 1 myself.

As anyone knows when you build a fresh Engine.
Nearly everything that is 50+ years old is trashed...

You only save the block and the crankshaft.

The cost of strip-down and cleaning then checking 'old parts' is expensive!
Buy all new parts and save everyone's time and your money...

I recently built a 1967-440 with ported iron heads and sixpack rods, new forged pistons all new valve gear etc.
Then one of the rods lost grip on the pin and it scored the 'bore' real bad and the whole lower-engine was JUNK!
$3000 build up in smoke for a $25 rod...

 

[66Satellite47]

These days an aftermarket aluminum head is the way to go. Refurbishing any of the OEM iron heads will cost nearly the same. My 500" motor in my streetable Satellite used EDE RPM 84 cc and a true 10.5 CR. It ran fine with the 92 non Oxy gas we have with no evidence of any detonation. For track use I'd put in 25% 110 race gas.
I agree with polyjohn, for a faily mild street build, most of the parts won't be used. All depends on how far you plan to go.

I forgot you already have the doner motor for the misc small parts. A bare block to go with your forged crank and new aluminum heads is the good plan.

 

[Barry Woodyard]

I have a 1966 440 I had built in 2013. It is a 540 Stroker now with Aluminum heads and 2- 4's. It had a crack similar to the photo above. They fixed it the same way and I do not Baby it. Still OK and what a monster

 

[1Tlew0]

Thanks everyone.

Over the weekend I found a smoking deal on a '68 440 bare block (excellent shape), standard bore, and heads! I dropped it off on Sunday, so hopefully everything checks out. Cheers

 

[SlinktRR]

Jeez I need to move to Wisconsin, all the Mopar blocks are there! Lol