Wrong pie pan?

[Bad B-rad]

I am just passing on info from the Paul Heard book.
This is a very good book, but it has been out of print for a bit, and so it goes for like 2 times its cover price on e-bay.
I think this book should be re printed as an up-dated version, as it is FULL OF GREAT INFO, but I have found a few errors in it, hey we all make mistakes, right!
Plus it would help put this info in a lot of peoples hands and I am sure there are a things that were not available to him in 1994 that we have now.

I find it funny, he states that in 1968-1970 factory workers MAY have possibly painted an engine the wrong color, but that this could NOT have happened in 1971, and that it could have happened with 383 4bbl, but NOT 440 4bbls.
I think it is safe to say it may be LESS likely to have happened in 1971, but not that it COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, LOL!

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

I can tell you the info for 70 is wrong. The 383 magnum was available in the 70 charger and was most definitely orange.

here is the factory literature for the 70 charger.

 

[Bad B-rad]

I hope I am not sounding like, its in the book it must be correct, that was not my intentions, I am just passing on what I have read, and this is some of what I have thought to be correct.
I was trying to point out how its funny "some mistakes can be made in Jan of 1968, but none could have been made in June of 1969"

I think as with any person, mistakes were made at the factory on a daily basis.
I would think engines being painted the wrong color may have happened quite often, and maybe even 383 2bbl short blocks( lower CR) being switched and getting 4bbl intakes and exhaust manifolds installed.



I personally have found errors in his book.
And I agree with the 1970 Change in 383(335HP) no longer being exclusive to the Super Bee/Road Runner.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

I am just passing on info from the Paul Heard book.
This is a very good book, but it has been out of print for a bit, and so it goes for like 2 times its cover price on e-bay.
I think this book should be re printed as an up-dated version, as it is FULL OF GREAT INFO, but I have found a few errors in it, hey we all make mistakes, right!
Plus it would help put this info in a lot of peoples hands and I am sure there are a things that were not available to him in 1994 that we have now.

I find it funny, he states that in 1968-1970 factory workers MAY have possibly painted an engine the wrong color, but that this could NOT have happened in 1971, and that it could have happened with 383 4bbl, but NOT 440 4bbls.
I think it is safe to say it may be LESS likely to have happened in 1971, but not that it COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, LOL!

The older restoration books and a good majority of the “mopar” websites contain a large amount of incorrect information when it comes to factory correct information.

I would also say the radio in your charger has been changed, sometime early in the cars life. Plymouth and Dodge were competitors, so having a Plymouth radio in a Dodge would be extremely unlikely.

 

[Bad B-rad]

I agree, and its tuff when typing things get lost, vs conversation, I like to learn, and MAYBE teach. I love to get new ideas from people, I am not the type who posts stuff to argue, I get too much of that from my wife, I would not go to the computer for it, LOL!!

Even factory litature can be wrong, I have brochure for a 1966 Charger, and in the engines it has specs for the 273 V8, and the new for 1966 the 440 V8!!!!
As far as I know 1967 was first year for 440 in a Charger.

With 1969 Road Runner being car of the year, I think it makes perfect sense and perfect timing to open up the availability of the 383 Magnum, to other car lines.
If the Challenger can have it, then so should the Charger, and even the Coronet.
The famous 1970 Scat pack ad, I was looking for the one with the chrome (brush guard looking) bumper on the Daytona Charger

 

[Nevada dan]

My dad worked at a dodge Chrysler Plymouth dealership , you might get a few mix ups on warranty work with them trying to get it done with what they had

 

[Bad B-rad]

Its funny talking of litature with errors, the engine info(posted above) for the 1970 Charger 383 says:
"Duel exhaust system. Four barrel carburetor. Standard camshaft, unsilenced air cleaner. A special high lift, high performance camshaft....." LOL!!
So is that saying that the standard camshaft IS the special high lift, high performance cam?
Kind of confusing, LOL!!!
Maybe that means in 1970 they did away with the 330HP 383, and made the 335HP 383, THE standard 4bbl 383.?

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Even factory litature can be wrong, I have brochure for a 1966 Charger, and in the engines it has specs for the 273 V8, and the new for 1966 the 440 V8!!!!
As far as I know 1967 was first year for 440 in a Charger.

Interesting, can you post a picture of it?

 

[Bad B-rad]

Here is a photo from 1966 Dodge Charger features booklet from Chrysler, I told my wife to get the info with the 273 V8, lets see if it came out..

 

[Bad B-rad]

WAY OFF TOPIC, but I had a 1966 Charger 383 4bbl auto from 2001 to 2015, so I have a ton of cool old ads, and stuff.
I even have the Motor Trend test of the new for 1966 Charger, and the popular mechanics write up with a poll of a bunch of 1966 Charger owners. Most complain about the back window, and a few about leaks. Mine never leaked, but I can sort of see if you don't pay attention to the 3 foot of car behind the rear window having issues.

I think for 1966 in a Charger options for engines were 361, 383, or HEMI.
1967 and you could get the 440.
It bothered me a touch when I put a 440 in my 1966, but I got over it, LOL

 

[ChargerXP]

I can tell you the info for 70 is wrong. The 383 magnum was available in the 70 charger and was most definitely orange.

 

[Duckmanreno]

Ok so my 69 Charger AC 383 4 speed car has has a Turquoise paint on the engine. It is the original engine and also has E63 on the fenders tag.
It has the dual snorkel air filter housing.
So is this the 330 or 335 Hp version. And what goes on the pie plate?

 

[Krooser]

I worked at Dodge and Plymouth dealers from '68 until '72. None of us noticed or cared about this stuff back then... Kinda funny to see all the hand wringing over these parts today.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Ok so my 69 Charger AC 383 4 speed car has has a Turquoise paint on the engine. It is the original engine and also has E63 on the fenders tag.
It has the dual snorkel air filter housing.
So is this the 330 or 335 Hp version. And what goes on the pie plate?

330 horse. 383 4 barrel pie pan, red most likely.

 

[69Coronetrt]

This is info I got from the 1994 MBI published Charger, Road Runner, Super Bee restoration guide by Paul Heard.
I am just typing what is found in this book:

In chapter 3, Power plants, it is broken down year by year from 1968-1971.
It reads basically what BLK 68 R/T has said,
all big blocks installed in Chargers in 1968 were painted turquoise, except the 426 Hemi.
It goes on to list the short blocks for the Charger 383 engines, 2bbl and 4bbl, and stated NO 383 MAGNUMS were installed in the Charger cars.
It reads: unique identification plate, sometimes called pie tins, used on Charger for 1968, were: 383 4BBl, and 440 Magnum, both in red.



1969:
It says all 383's the pan, dipstick handle and block, should wear the same finish as in 1968 EXCEPT the 383/335HP version.
The 335HP engine and the HP 440 should be painted Hemi orange, Ditzler EQE-60626 with 25% Ditzler DX-265 flattening agent, to correctly darken it.
It goes on to claim SOME 383/335HP V8 were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning.
But ALL 440/375HP V8 engines, even those equipped with air conditioning were painted Hemi orange, using same formula as the 383/335HP Magnum/Road Runner engine.
And once again states the 383 Magnum was not available in the Charger, and the Charger' special identification plates(pie tins) remained unchanged from 1968
.

Two thoughts...

The Herd book is mostly crap and good for bird cage liner.

Applications of the 383 330 and 335 horse versions vary by year in 68-69 and 70.

What happened in 68 may or may not have happened in 70 so when you talk about the various applications you have to be very specific as to what year.

All of the following can be documented by broadcast sheets.

Code 62 (1968) or E63 (69 and 70) engine codes on tags and H in the VIN only tell you the car got a 383-4 bbl. I does not tell you which version of the 383-4 you got. Books, decoders and all the rest do not make this distinction. There were 383-4 for A, B and C bodies with various horsepower ratings. All of them code 62/63 and H in the VIN.

For 1969- The orange 335 horse version was standard in the Road Runner and Super Bee with either transmission and without A/C. The orange 335 horse version came in any B body (Satellite, Charger, Coronet 440 etc) with the four speed and without A/C. There is no distinction in the assembly between a Road Runner/Super Bee assembly and any other model.

Any 69 B body non Road Runner or Super Bee with an automatic transmission got the 330 version.

The turquoise 330 horse assembly came in any 69 B body with A/C. There was no orange 335 horse assembly with A/C in 69.

So if a 69 Charger has a four speed and no A/C, it will have the 335 horse orange assembly. Any 69 Charger with an automatic transmission will have the 330 horse. Any 69 Charger with A/C will have the 330 horse.

 

[fratzog lover]

330 horse. 383 4 barrel pie pan, red most likely.

Agree.

 

[fratzog lover]

Two thoughts...

The Herd book is mostly crap and good for bird cage liner.

Applications of the 383 330 and 335 horse versions vary by year in 68-69 and 70.

What happened in 68 may or may not have happened in 70 so when you talk about the various applications you have to be very specific as to what year.

All of the following can be documented by broadcast sheets.

Code 62 (1968) or E63 (69 and 70) engine codes on tags and H in the VIN only tell you the car got a 383-4 bbl. I does not tell you which version of the 383-4 you got. Books, decoders and all the rest do not make this distinction. There were 383-4 for A, B and C bodies with various horsepower ratings. All of them code 62/63 and H in the VIN.

For 1969- The orange 335 horse version was standard in the Road Runner and Super Bee with either transmission and without A/C. The orange 335 horse version came in any B body (Satellite, Charger, Coronet 440 etc) with the four speed and without A/C. There is no distinction in the assembly between a Road Runner/Super Bee assembly and any other model.

Any 69 B body non Road Runner or Super Bee with an automatic transmission got the 330 version.

The turquoise 330 horse assembly came in any 69 B body with A/C. There was no orange 335 horse assembly with A/C in 69.

So if a 69 Charger has a four speed and no A/C, it will have the 335 horse orange assembly. Any 69 Charger with an automatic transmission will have the 330 horse. Any 69 Charger with A/C will have the 330 horse.

Learn something new every day. The late 60's production at Chrysler gave us more than a few head scratchers.

 

[69Coronetrt]

Learn something new every day. The late 60's production at Chrysler gave us more than a few head scratchers.

In this case it makes sense. In 68, there were 383-4 bbl manual transmission 330 and 335 horse assemblies. For 69, one assembly, the 330 horse, was eliminated making the application chart more simple.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Two thoughts...

The Herd book is mostly crap and good for bird cage liner.

Applications of the 383 330 and 335 horse versions vary by year in 68-69 and 70.

What happened in 68 may or may not have happened in 70 so when you talk about the various applications you have to be very specific as to what year.

All of the following can be documented by broadcast sheets.

Code 62 (1968) or E63 (69 and 70) engine codes on tags and H in the VIN only tell you the car got a 383-4 bbl. I does not tell you which version of the 383-4 you got. Books, decoders and all the rest do not make this distinction. There were 383-4 for A, B and C bodies with various horsepower ratings. All of them code 62/63 and H in the VIN.

For 1969- The orange 335 horse version was standard in the Road Runner and Super Bee with either transmission and without A/C. The orange 335 horse version came in any B body (Satellite, Charger, Coronet 440 etc) with the four speed and without A/C. There is no distinction in the assembly between a Road Runner/Super Bee assembly and any other model.

Any 69 B body non Road Runner or Super Bee with an automatic transmission got the 330 version.

The turquoise 330 horse assembly came in any 69 B body with A/C. There was no orange 335 horse assembly with A/C in 69.

So if a 69 Charger has a four speed and no A/C, it will have the 335 horse orange assembly. Any 69 Charger with an automatic transmission will have the 330 horse. Any 69 Charger with A/C will have the 330 horse.

Some of this contradicts the dealership data books, unless I’m reading them wrong for 69 models. Do the dealership data books contain incorrect information?
From the 69 coronet section.

From the charger one.

 

[69Coronetrt]

Some of this contradicts the dealership data books, unless I’m reading them wrong for 69 models. Do the dealership data books contain incorrect information?

Yes. It's one of things that leads to and perpetuates confusion.
The data books do not and cannot explain all of the nuances of the installation applications. That info can be derived from broadcast sheets and Lynch Road fender tags.

Here's a pic of a 69 Charger Broadcast sheet. E63 383-4bbl four speed no a/c. The 925 engine assembly is circled. This is the same assembly that will be shown on an equivalent Road Runner, Super Bee, Sport Satellite or Coronet broadcast sheet or Lynch Road fender tag.

69 B bodies with 383-4bbl and four speed with no a/c got the orange 335 horse assembly regardless of the actual model.