Your 'Guide' to the 727/904 transmission

[Skytrooper]

I could use some help here. If I put the car into gear while on jackstands, it operates normally. If i have it on the ground then it doesn't seem to have the power to move itself. If I gun it it will travel about an inch.

 

[Dipstick]

Both forward and backward?

 

[Skytrooper]

I didnt properly check xmsn fluid level. It is fine now.

 

[Chukar]

Often I or anyone for that matter asks to find out what type of transmission they have in their old mopar. There are hundreds, if not a thousand, of threads on this website identifying, discussing or assisting with this process, troubleshooting or repair.

Because of this large number of threads and the fact that using the search option is unbeknownst to some members, I have put this together.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, HERE IS FRONTAL PICTURES OF THE /6, SB, AND BB TRANSMISSIONS:

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HOW TO IDENTIFY YOUR TRANSMISSION:

1. Do I have a 727 or a 904?

The picture of the 727 transmission is first, the second is a 904 transmission –


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Gasket pictures to see what you may have from a bottom view

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2. Here are pictures of 4x4 transmission 727 on the left and 999 on the right

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3. Where do I look for the identification number’s on my transmission?

You will see a set of numbers starting with “PK” on the driver’s side of the transmission above the tranny pan but below the shifter levers, see below:

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The passenger side carries with it (if its 69 model year only) the complete VIN of the vehicle, 1970 and above have the year, place of manufacturer, and serial number of the vehicle it was made for, see below:

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4. What are the differences between a A518/46RH, a 904/999/A500 and a 727?


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5. What do I have to do to put a OD transmission in my older vehicle?

Here is a start. There are many sites that cover this swap, but this one is pretty good to get you going.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm

6. Why is a 727 called a 727 and a 904 called a 904?

The 904 was originally called the Torqueflite 6 and the 727 was the Torqueflite 8. These designations were changed in '64 when the 904 was adapted for use in the new 273 V8 and was no longer a 6 cylinder only unit.

7. What is the difference between a truck and a car tailhousing?

TRUCK HOUSING:

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CAR HOUSING:

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8. What is the difference, externally, between a 65 and below 727 and a 66 and up?

65 and below will have the parking brake mechanism located on the outside of the tailshaft housing (see right silver transmission), and the transmission mount is located in a difference place, and has wider bolt/stud mounting holes.

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Also, 65 and below were a pushbutton design:

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9. What are the differences between the shift levers, are there any?

Generally, a 727 shifter lever is straight and a 904 is offset (though some applications have different length of levers to compensate for vehicle model/engine combinations).
727 on top, 904 on bottom:

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10. This will give you an idea to the different styles of throttle pressure (aka kickdown) levers:

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11. Good reference on what each port does in the transmission case:

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12. BREAK DOWN OF A 727:

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13. DIMENSIONS BETWEEN 727 AND 904:

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Remember, only smallblocks have 904 derivative transmissions, though some came with 727’s (i.e. certain truck and HP car models). Big Blocks only came with 727’s.
And here is a kicker to boot.. International Scout’s and other IH trucks used 727’s also.. so did AMC’s here is a pic of a AMC 727:

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Great resource book:

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http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Torqueflite-A-727-Transmission-Handbook/Carl-Munroe/e/9781557883995

WELL THAT ABOUT DOES IT.. HOPE YOU ALL GET A LITTLE INSIGHT FROM THIS.. I MAY ADD TO THIS AS I GO ALONG.

Thanks

 

[moparsquid]

I need a tranny for the strip is there a difference between the average 727 and one from a hemi espescially if I have a performance rebuild done to it

 

[Fran Blacker]

Use a 67 or newer 727, don't need a Hemi trans if the one you have is built for drag racing. MO.

 

[moparsquid]

thanks, no I think its all stock

 

[66Satellite47]

Squid, I'm pretty sure I've posted my drag racing combination in this thread. No need for a Hemi 727, too rare & expensive and heavy.
Use a 3.8 front servo lever (4.2 if you find one), either 4 or 5 race red or equal, clutches in front drum. I prefer 4 pinion planetary front & rear(3 rear OK) and an aftermarket reverse manual valve body.
The 71 & later have a different front pump & front clutch drum with a wider bushing. Most folks prefer the wide bushing. I've used both behind a 500+ HP motor, both do fine.

 

[Auggie56]

1970 did not have a 360 as they first started appearing in trucks in 1971 and slowly transitioned to cars and trucks in 72+. most 360's did not come with a 904 transmission as the 727 was the opted factory choice (not sure any 360's came with a 904 as a combo, but never say never with ma mopar).

mancini racing sells the kit, the instructions inside will tell you "where" you wil need to weld on the weights exactly.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/torconweigba.html

I think you just solved my problem with my 78' cast crank 440. I bought a converter and knew nothing of these weights. Many thanks.

 

[66Satellite47]

I think you just solved my problem with my 78' cast crank 440. I bought a converter and knew nothing of these weights. Many thanks.

Hope you noticed too that the cast 440's had a special damper and the converter weights, which are different than the 360 weights & location.

 

[Auggie56]

Hope you noticed too that the cast 440's had a special damper and the converter weights, which are different than the 360 weights & location.

I learned this a couple of months ago I have the stock damper and per that weight kit they are used on cast crank 440s.

 

[66Satellite47]

I give credit to Mopar for casting in "Cast 440 Only" in the damper to distinguish it from the "6 Pac" heavy rod 440 or 400 or 360 damper.

 

[dagomike]

#2408006 is for a 1963 383/413 V8 4 bbl, Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Imperial. Info from the Tom Hand TorqueFlite A-904 & A- 727 Transmission rebuild book Trans number index for 1963.

First of all Happy New Year! I have a favor to ask as I seen that you were able to help another member identify an early 727. If you could help me I have a line on a 727 and need to verify it will work for my application. I want to put it in a 65 Coronet behind a 440, Maintain the factory console shifter and cables... The seller lost her husband who put it together and knows nothing about it. So if you could please advise me if it will work or not and what year this came out of. I suspect it is not actually the one year only 1965 727 and is an earlier one that has been converted for a slip yoke output shaft. But not sure and that is why I am reaching out. The number b2408005 0877726. Not positive on the number as the photo is blurry. Also if you have any area or components to verify fitment to look out for regarding installing this tranny in the car I mentioned I would really appreciate it if you could advise me. Thanks, Mike

 

[Ghostrider 67]

It's a 1963 unit from behind a 361 V8 in MOPAR vehicle with a 2bbl carb. That will be a 19 spline trans. Your trans , If indeed it came from behind a 361 as indicated, will bolt up to the 440 as they are both big block motors. Not certain about the flange to flywheel plate holes lining up. If they don't get a different flange plate so the holes do line up.

 

[dagomike]

It's a 1963 unit from behind a 361 V8 in MOPAR vehicle with a 2bbl carb. That will be a 19 spline trans. You will need the BB bellhousing to fit behind the 440 RB V8. The one from the 63 B engine 361 is different. Need to investigate the correct flex plate/ torque converter combination for this set up depending on HP and what you intend to do with the car, as in race it, launch it repeatedly or cruise or trailer queen etc...

See, that is why you reach out for experienced advice. Saved me some cash. I don`t want to spend a grip on the car and was just gonna make a solid budget cruiser out of it. I was going to use it behind a mild 440 and just cruise it. maybe get on it a little here and there. I did not know that the early (361) low deck 727`s had a different sized bell housing bolt pattern. I thought a BB 727 should match up with all big blocks. so this one would take to much $$$ and effort to make it work with my application, so I am gonna pass on it. If anyone out there has an interest in this tranny I can get you in touch with the seller. She`s asking a pretty reasonable price IMO. There has been some modifications such as the yolk U joint output shaft has been updated. That is about all I know about it at this point. Once again thanks Ghost Rider for sharing your knowledge. Mike

 

[Ghostrider 67]

Keep in mind that the transmission guts are identical inside, between big block and small block, except where the transmission is behind an 'other then stock' motor such as a magnum or six pac motor. These trans may have higher pinion planetary's and higher ratio apply levers etc, while still being the same mechanically.
edited because i'm an idiot..lol.

 

[Ghostrider 67]

Sorry, Just to make sure I understand. Your saying that this transmission was behind a 1963 361 low deck big block will not bolt to 1969 440 raised deck big block due to the transmission bell housing which in the case of a 727 is essentially the transmission case do not match up. Right? Your statement regarding swapping bell housings being easy has me a little confused. I am picturing swapping the entire internals from one case to another. lol. Then I would have to locate the correct BB 727 cable shift tranny to match up with a 440 raised deck also. Please clarify. Appreciate your time and advise. Thanks, Mike

Sorry. Your trans, ,if indeed it came from behind a 361, as the numbers indicate, will indeed bolt up to the 440. Both engines are big blocks. Measure the space between the two top center mounting flange holes along the bellhousing lip. Small block trans has 7 3/4" between the holes center to center. The Big block trans has 6 1/4" between them. The torque converter that came with the trans will be fine as long as it's in good shape, should bolt up okay. If not, then you will need to purchase a different mounting plate so the holes will line up on the flywheel. Now, around 1965 they went from bolt on drive shaft yokes to slip on. I cant speak to whether the drive shaft will bolt up or not as to length...sorry for the cornfusion. Got old timers...lol.

 

[Dipstick]

The '63 transmission was push button shift only, if it still has the original valve body you will need a '64 console or '65 valve body to make it compatible with your console shifter.

 

[dagomike]

The '63 transmission was push button shift only, if it still has the original valve body you will need a '64 console or '65 valve body to make it compatible with your console shifter.

Thanks for the advise. Can I take the valve body out of the original small block cable shift 727 and install it in the Big Block 727 and be good to go? I know the rooster comb area need to be adjusted to the switch correctly. Thanks

 

[dagomike]

Sorry. Your trans, ,if indeed it came from behind a 361, as the numbers indicate, will indeed bolt up to the 440. Both engines are big blocks. Measure the space between the two top center mounting flange holes along the bellhousing lip. Small block trans has 7 3/4" between the holes center to center. The Big block trans has 6 1/4" between them. The torque converter that came with the trans will be fine as long as it's in good shape, should bolt up okay. If not, then you will need to purchase a different mounting plate so the holes will line up on the flywheel. Now, around 1965 they went from bolt on drive shaft yokes to slip on. I cant speak to whether the drive shaft will bolt up or not as to length...sorry for the cornfusion. Got old timers...lol.

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No worries, NO ONE is perfect. That is why when things were not adding up I sent the follow up question. I pretty sure this is a BB 727 so now that I am pretty sure it will work behind a BB I am gonna go take a closer look at it. These are becoming harder and harder to find and the price is right too. I will make sure to measure the distance on the top mounting holes to verify it is a BB trans prior to buying.